The Capital Punishment

[Arikel]

I didn't have to resort to insults in that post or the post before

Instead of getting on a high horse and spouting the word regime over and over like a kid with tourette syndrome after watching Sesame street

A, don't use my own insults when you're trying to reply to me

You don't need originality here, nor do we need to hear about how bad you think the American justice system is.

WE?!?!
Well that certainly shows iniciative on your part! i mean talking for not only you but all the other persons in this forum!! That's pretty good for starters, from now on we shall consult you on what to post and not post in the tw forums and ask what are the topics in demand by the tw comunity, or the american comunity here in the forums.

Being responsible for those choices and answering to them. Is that supposed to be my job, or the elected officials? With the few people I've been able to vote for, I have looked at the pros and cons of each candidate, instead of voting blindly or not voting at all, like too many of my peers. With the options given to me, I vote in what I think is the best choice.

Sadly, majority rules, and not enough people in my age range are voting. So tell me, how am I responsible when I vote for a person and his opponent gets put in office? How am I responsible when I vote for a law change and it doesn't go through?

The level of awareness on a number of subjects is higher than ever and yet so is the level apathy. You try to tell me it's up to myself as a responsible citizen, but signing 80 petitions and going to rallies won't do a thing if not enough people are voting to make these changes.

You don't seem to grab the content or the message im trying to transmit, maybe it's my problem or you don't want to understand it... it's not a matter of being able to do something about it or not... it's a matter of being part of a society and being responsible for it's deeds as it os responsible for yours!! Not just prime ministers and deputees and councilers are responsible for it, everyone takes a part.

How old are you? Do you know how laws are passed? Life is never as simple as everyone would like it to be, it's not always the fault of your states Rep. because a bill passes or doesn't pass. What if a rep. does his best, tries his hardest and the majority still wants to do the opposite. That rep should lose his job? The others should lose their jobs? Good luck with trying to get them all out of office. That's going to take lots of angry letters, hundreds, maybe thousands of angry voters, elections to replace said officials, reputable people with the track record and common sense to replace the bad officials, money for campaigning, etc etc.

Ok ill put it simple!
If you are incompetent in your job your boss tells you to leave!!
If a minister can't do it's job he get's kicked. I'm not talking about doing EVERYTHING there is to do but if he doesn't get the acceptable he goes out.
Lol and about how the laws are passed... well all i can say is that your countries system is diferent from mine but rest asured i know what i'm talking about.

You've gone to 4 gatherings and volunteered 3 times. Signed a few petitions, and are apart of a youth member group. Congratulations, your country applauds you. Granted you do slightly more than the average person of the age range 15-25, but it's still not enough. You talk about people being ashamed if they aren't working to do change, but like you said, you can do alot better.

Why aren't you out every weekend volunteering? Why aren't you picking up trash out of parks and high-traffic areas at least twice a week? Why aren't you organizing said gathers instead of just going to them, why aren't you getting more of your friends into these activities, why aren't you heading the petitions and going door to door to get those signatures? Why why why why?

There are a dozen more things you could be doing, and all them don't require you to waste time talking about how someone else could be doing more halfway across the world. You won't cease to strive for the betterment of your country, but you won't devote as much time as possible will you? You'll just sign a petition or two, go to a gathering for 15 mins to pat yourself on the back and make you feel like an involved citizen.

Once again you show your pathetic little self when you try to belittle me or any effort i've placed on those things without even knowing me!! I'm not going to bother to tell you the things i've done or haven't done as they are more then that list i posted above but once again notice you try to get your point across by showing a rather agresive response, maybe you have some problems about your own security and a low sense of self fullfillment, perhaps you should try to adress those problems first instead of wasting your time belittling others or trying to insult someone based in your distorted view of said persons post!!

[Liquid Blue]

I never said I didn't insult you, simply that I didn't have to. I added the comments because of how you acted in your first post; again your negativity recieved negative words in kind.

And yes, we don't need to hear about it. It's not some ego thing, I don't speak for every forum person here, it's just that complaining about America is not new or is it rare in the recent topics. We don't need to hear about it in every topic that graces these forums, just like you don't want to hear someone saying the same thing over and over when you go someplace.

There's no problem understanding your message, you have a romantic idea of how justice and the government is run, and seem to think that for my country, every single person has a choice in every action made by my government, even though you don't live here and refuse to accept the idea that there are some things simply out of our control.

I'm sure you wanted to keep it simple with that example, but like I told you before, life is not that simple, especially when it comes to politics and government. If my country's system is different than yours, please do not tell me how simple it is to change something, because it's not.

I'm not trying to belittle you, I'm trying to show you how things work on my side of the world- it's not as simple as you'd like it to be and I can't (and won't) claim myself to be a responsible citizen working with every change in the government by signing a petition or going to 1 or 2 rallies. If my response seemed agressive to you, then you need to take a step back and think about why it seemed so agressive, what exactly in my post unsettled or seemed provoking to you.

I don't waste my time making posts telling people in other countries how to live, how bad their countries are, how much richer America is or anything remotely similar. Just because you don't agree with how I percieved your post and your message, doesn't mean it's distorted. Like I said, everyone is different and everyone has different views, which is why you can't go around telling people what they should feel ashamed for.

[Fallen Angel]

[Divine]

My two cents

My stance on the death situaton is different.
I believe it is an ineffective deterrent in this day and age. People who commit murder, have shown they have little to no regard for life. They know the punishment they will receive for committing their actions is the death penalty, but this proves to not matter.
I believe a different approach should be taken, instead of giving murderers a simple, quick, clean, controlled death, extreme punishment needs to applied. This could go as far as torture used day in day out for years, untill the submission of the murderer is believed to be true. Then a system needs to be set up so they reconciliate what they have done.
This is in no way perfect, and the physical and mental breakdown of the criminal will extreme, but it is a far better way for people to pay for commiting the murder of innocent civillians.

[genocidal]

Damn, I always just kind of assumed Arikel was a moron but now he's proven it to me beyond any doubt.

LB, why argue with someone who can't even spell "which"?

[PH]

she*

Take it back and hop on the estrogen express, boys.

[Galleleo]

Please don't fuck my thread up with stupid as pics.

Arikel is a she, and she is not stupid. I am not chosing her side, but she has her beliefs and you have yours, her primary language isn't english, so don't attack her on her english, that's what morons do. Argue with her on what she says or stfu. (directed at genocidal not lb)

My stance on the death situaton is different.
I believe it is an ineffective deterrent in this day and age. People who commit murder, have shown they have little to no regard for life. They know the punishment they will receive for committing their actions is the death penalty, but this proves to not matter.
I believe a different approach should be taken, instead of giving murderers a simple, quick, clean, controlled death, extreme punishment needs to applied. This could go as far as torture used day in day out for years, untill the submission of the murderer is believed to be true. Then a system needs to be set up so they reconciliate what they have done.
This is in no way perfect, and the physical and mental breakdown of the criminal will extreme, but it is a far better way for people to pay for commiting the murder of innocent civillians.

Firstly, I don't know if you have a gf at the moment or not, but say she is being attacked, molested, whatever. And you happen to walk in, the person doing it has a gun, or a knife or whatever, and someone in a fight you end up killing him. You weren't thinking: Wait.. if I fight him now, because he is attacking my girl, I might just kill him, but that gets me the death penalty. A fuck it, let him molest my gf I don't want the death penalty.

In other words, you can't put all murders in 1 spot. Alot of murders happen because of the heat of the moment, in those situation you don't think about getting the death penalty. Besides, what you proposed is a huge violation of Human Rights and is what got America in their problems concerning Guatanamo Bay. No country western country is going to be able to pull of a change in law towards legally being able to torture people. In countries like China it does prob still happen, but death penalties get given there for much less then murder too.

On the subject of what you can do and not 2 concerning your goverment and their policies. I think it's much easier for Arikel to put pressure on her goverment, Portugal being a far smaller country and having a different system. I notice, in the netherlands it's quite easy to pressure the Goverment if they are doing something the majority of the people don't like here, I can understand that this would be much harder in America because of the sheer size of the country and because the system works different I can't judge on how and in what ways as a group you can pressure the goverment before learning about the American system and how it exactly works. But I think size does matter.

[Arikel]

I never said I didn't insult you, simply that I didn't have to. I added the comments because of how you acted in your first post; again your negativity recieved negative words in kind.

I though you had understood that the reason for my post was not to bash américa... anyone with a brain cell could have noticed that... furthermore and since you are against death penalty you shaould have noticed the main message in my post... but more on that ahead...

And yes, we don't need to hear about it. It's not some ego thing, I don't speak for every forum person here, it's just that complaining about America is not new or is it rare in the recent topics. We don't need to hear about it in every topic that graces these forums, just like you don't want to hear someone saying the same thing over and over when you go someplace.

Once again you talk like you have some authority here... you think that because someone goes against what is stipulated by whatever assumption of what is socially correct it warrants you the right to sned insults against that person, you fail to notice that the only fact i've gave myself the work of writting all this lines is to tell you that you DONT have the right to insult no one on this forums as you repeatedly have done, i'm not the only person you have insulted because of a similar thing...

There's no problem understanding your message, you have a romantic idea of how justice and the government is run, and seem to think that for my country, every single person has a choice in every action made by my government, even though you don't live here and refuse to accept the idea that there are some things simply out of our control.

I'm sure you wanted to keep it simple with that example, but like I told you before, life is not that simple, especially when it comes to politics and government. If my country's system is different than yours, please do not tell me how simple it is to change something, because it's not.

No no!! life is not simple! and the highest degree by wich someone can rule his life is by ideals, not by law, not by wich is socially acceptable or not by following certain aspects to wich you might have previously agreed, following your ethics and your principles is the highest thing you can aspire and that same philosophical principal is what is served as the bases for the foundation of any society. You can never use the idea that things will never be ok and that things aren't changeable, despite that having a close view of the real situation and maintaining your expectations withing limits are the way to go but never forgetting that it is the principles that matter!!

I'm not trying to belittle you, I'm trying to show you how things work on my side of the world- it's not as simple as you'd like it to be and I can't (and won't) claim myself to be a responsible citizen working with every change in the government by signing a petition or going to 1 or 2 rallies. If my response seemed agressive to you, then you need to take a step back and think about why it seemed so agressive, what exactly in my post unsettled or seemed provoking to you.

Please dont use that crap retoric against me.

I don't waste my time making posts telling people in other countries how to live, how bad their countries are, how much richer America is or anything remotely similar. Just because you don't agree with how I percieved your post and your message, doesn't mean it's distorted. Like I said, everyone is different and everyone has different views, which is why you can't go around telling people what they should feel ashamed for.

Ok and now that you seem to have toned down your speach and understood that you can't just insult everyone just because, ill try to explain to you my post and to say why it's not an insult what so ever, something you could have asked me before going on your insult spree, it's quite simple, my post is not a directed ofense to americans and it can't be viewed that way because as any reasonable person could have noticed it was an appeal, yes, an appeal, i was using some of the arguments the most conservative people use and trying to show them that even at the light of those arguments the death penalty is wrongh, hence the war and the old values and the wars and blood spilled in battles long forgotten. Well then why not just show them all the arguments everyone knows and wich all persons that disagree with death penalty assume as valid?? Well because those arguments haven't proved to fruition till now and if you want to have some validity in your responce you must use arguments that they view as valid...

Understood??

Ok! so next time mind your manners and ask the reasons before going and start insulting someone.

PS: The only reason i bothered to write all this words to you LB is because i think you will at least think about them or meditate about them... otherwise i would have just ignored you. "no dont bring the Oh you are so magnanimous retort it's not supposed to be a degrading comment and i think you know better".

PPS:

Damn, I always just kind of assumed Arikel was a moron but now he's proven it to me beyond any doubt.

LB, why argue with someone who can't even spell "which"?

Belive it or not the feeling is mutual. Moron!!

Now please lets get back on topic.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Firstly, I don't know if you have a gf at the moment or not, but say she is being attacked, molested, whatever. And you happen to walk in, the person doing it has a gun, or a knife or whatever, and someone in a fight you end up killing him. You weren't thinking: Wait.. if I fight him now, because he is attacking my girl, I might just kill him, but that gets me the death penalty. A fuck it, let him molest my gf I don't want the death penalty.

That's a bad example. There's no court in the US (I can't speak for other courts) that would convict you of what's more of less a classic issue of self defense.

[Benno]

It's like the Micheal Moore effect all over again.

I will subconciously assign "bitchy" to the above views and unwittingly be agasint them.

Spinsanity is really a neo-con who enjoys painting the opposition as inept, angry, arm-chair academics with "beliefs" that mask their biterness at jelousy. That being the case maybe Arikel is Dick Cheny?

edit: above as in Arikel

GRR IM GOING TO GET PMS'D NOW

[genocidal]

I don't care what "it" is. Gall, everyone knows you're a moron already anyway. I wasn't attacking it because it can't spell - that was just one thing I thought any coherent person attacking a nation with cliched and exaggerated catch-phrases they hear on their TV would at least know to spell. I didn't know, and don't particularly care, that it is foreign. That said, I was attacking its logic, not its grammar - though both are atrocious.

[genocidal]

I though you had understood that the reason for my post was not to bash américa

Anyone who can read knows this is not true.

blah blah blah you DONT have the right to insult no one on this forums as you repeatedly have done, i'm not the only person you have insulted because of a similar thing...

He has the right to call people like you on being ignorant.

any reasonable person could have noticed it was an appeal, yes, an appeal, i was using some of the arguments the most conservative people use and trying to show them that even at the light of those arguments the death penalty is wrongh, hence the war and the old values and the wars and blood spilled in battles long forgotten. Well then why not just show them all the arguments everyone knows and wich all persons that disagree with death penalty assume as valid?? Well because those arguments haven't proved to fruition till now and if you want to have some validity in your responce you must use arguments that they view as valid...

Understood??

No, that made even less sense than your first post. I'm not a fan of the death penalty either, but for some reason you think that America's past wars means it's unjustified because people died for a cause or something? I dunno, that's the best I can do with what I'm given - which is this cluster-fuck you call logic.

[Arikel]

Try hard!

[Sumpson]

I remember there was a topic about this in here a while ago, I didnt read all of the reply's on this topic, but read fast trough the Arguments you stated which are against Death Penalty and was surprised to not see something like this;

Death penalty is less of a penalty than prison for life, if you do not think so.. torturing for life would be an option.

What about terrorists who blow themselfs up and take 100 man with them? They don't care about their selves but only about their actions, make them care about theirselves, and make them feel sad about theirselves if thats what they desirve.

I see Death Penalty as an easy way out for criminals, they don't care.

[Galleleo]

Conc, I wasn't really pointing towards getting convicted, but yea in retrospect is was a wrong example. I just wanted to point out that you can't shove all murders on one big heap because alot of them happen without that person thinking about it first, or taking in to account the death penalty as a possible retailiation (bad phrase probably for this situation, but meh)

The suiciders supposedly get 70 (not sure on the number but it's alot) virgin women once then would proceed into "heaven".

But yea, I do think that on the one hand, the death penalty is an easy way out, as stated before I would rather get the death penalty then be stuck in prison for the rest off my life.