War with Iran

[genocidal]

Israel is backed by the US because otherwise countries like Syria, Iran, etc. would blow the fuck out of them. Saying it's not an Israeli-Arab conflict is ridiculous.

And, our troops are in Saudi Arabia because they want them there. Just because it pisses off other Arab countries doesn't mean it pisses off the Saudi government. They love having the US there because that means money and money means power and continued rule.

[brookus]

the palestine-israel conflict isnt a Arab-Israeli war?

No, it isn't. A war is a war.

part of the reason israel is so frowned upon is beacuse it is the USA's lackey, and cant fight its own battles...

Six-day war? Please don't use "they got all their equipment from the West", considering the Arab states got their military equipment from the Soviets. I think the reason Israel is frowned upon is that they "stole" Arab land and, of course, their religion.

leave it well alone, and let it do just that.

With the fanaticism on both sides, do you really think that peace would be brought about by the US stepping aside?

llater,
Tony

[Displaced]

geno and brookus, are you guys reading what im saying? or are you just seeing what you want to see?

As i already said genocidal, the Saudi Royal Family wants the US there, but thats it, everyone else in the ME wants them out. (I said that already, so dont rehash what ive already said)

Brookus, Im not saying anything about where the Arab states got their arsenal from, im saying a reason for why the us pulling out COULD help in the peace process, and that is because arabs dislike americans, being americas "bitch" is another reason to be disliked.

And as ive said already, i dont know if it will bring peace, but it could help reach some sort of agreement between just Israel and Palestine, instead of trying to reach an agreement between USA + Israel and Palestine + ME.

Lets say we got talks going where they would seriously consider sharing Jerusalem and allowing palestines to live within Israel (and vice versa), peace could be feasible, I'm not saying its gonna happen, but there is atleast a chance.

[FarScape]

the palestinians doesnt really want peace as long as we are here.
people need to understand that if they stop the terr, and start really talking, israel have no need to send soldiers to terror nests to risk themself...
USA never helped israel like they helped Kuwait or in vietnam. US sold israel
weapons and ammo for very cheap, and support us with some money, but no US soldier spill their blood here for israel (and i hope they never will). most of the arab countries support USA (syria, lebanon, egypt, Saudi Arabia and more...) the only countries who i know dislike USA is iran and north korea, mostly and probably cause of their regime...

about iran, the problem with iran is that it ruled by theocracy who said since they did the revolution in iran (in 1974 if im not wrong) that US and israel should be destroyed to death...

now, israel, or any other country, never said they are going to destroy a country. iran did, and thats why everyone should worry.

[Kolar]

actually kolar i have quite a strong opinion as i have a 1\2 brother a cousin and an uncle in Iraq as i type this. they wouldnt take me because of past injury (i cant run\climb stairs).
i got a call from my uncle while at my grandmas house last week and he told me about being shot at by child of no more than 14 years old. needless to say the kid didnt do so well. probably told "hey kid, kill an american youll be closer to god!".
im sorry but thats not right, and any leader who teaches 14 yr olds how to shoot ppl needs his balls smashed with a hammer.

the point im trying to make is these people are madmen\tyrants. and i dont know how similar the attitude (kill americans) is in Iran, but if its anything similar do YOU want them to have nuke potential?

i say if your as loco as saddam, and are trying to build\hide\develop nukes, be ready to get your ass handed to you, shock and awe style. we cant have the potential for that much destruction in the wrong hands, or were gonna end up with somebody INNOCENT like france or some shit w\e getting blown the fuck up. at witch point the world will say," dammit, shoulda let USA fuck em up to begin with".

I don't believe any country/state/kingdom/doughnut shop in the middle east should have nuclear capabilities, for civil energy uses or for military applications.

In your previous post all I saw was total compliance towards the current Admin., not an opinion on the situation but a distaste for those not "falling into line".

Six-day war? Please don't use "they got all their equipment from the West", considering the Arab states got their military equipment from the Soviets. I think the reason Israel is frowned upon is that they "stole" Arab land and, of course, their religion.

With the fanaticism on both sides, do you really think that peace would be brought about by the US stepping aside?

I would consider the Arab-Israeli issue a prolonged conflict but not a war, certainly not a war of cultures or anything major. Also Israel didn't steal any land, it was transfered to their authority after WW2.

I think besides being an ally of the USA, which in this day and age is enough for some fucking 12 year old Arab fuck to attack you with an axe while you're sitting on the ground with your back turned, Israel has resorted to some very poor tactics when dealing with the terrorism they've dealt with for more then 50 years. Neither side is in the right, they both need to work things out. The first step, although I don't like it is chaos. The PA is going to go down hard and Hamas is going to be kicked out, hopefully it will not turn into a civil war. Either way the future of the Palestiniens is going to be rough regardless of what Israel does, they made their own bed.. Israel is on the right track I think by proposing final boarders, they just need to work past the hatred.

The US has to step back a bit and support the UN and EU, I think they have more credibility for one and are less likely to cause major incidences through diplomacy. I think Iran, NK and other states would see that as a sign of good faith not a weakness. The US has to start earning its credibility back up through legit channels, aside from their plans for the middle east which need to change fast.

[Zerzera]

Iran should forget about nuclear power and do like the US, waste as much recourses as possible.

[brookus]

Brookus, Im not saying anything about where the Arab states got their arsenal from, im saying a reason for why the us pulling out COULD help in the peace process, and that is because arabs dislike americans, being americas "bitch" is another reason to be disliked.

What? Do you honestly think that arabs dislike us more than Israel itself? So you're suggesting that all of the Arab/Israel problems could be solved by the US just stepping aside?

I only wish that it were that easy.

llater,
Tony

[FarScape]

What? Do you honestly think that arabs dislike us more than Israel itself? So you're suggesting that all of the Arab/Israel problems could be solved by the US just stepping aside?

I only wish that it were that easy.

llater,
Tony

because of US we have peace with egypt and jordan. US (and europe) send alot of money to the palestinians.... guess where the money goes?

[genocidal]

Who gives 2 flying fucks where Middle Easterns think the US should have military bases? All that matters is what governments want and tough shit to any government that thinks the US shouldn't have bases in Saudi Arabia.

[genocidal]

The US has to step back a bit and support the UN and EU, I think they have more credibility for one and are less likely to cause major incidences through diplomacy. I think Iran, NK and other states would see that as a sign of good faith not a weakness. The US has to start earning its credibility back up through legit channels, aside from their plans for the middle east which need to change fast.

This is the most beneficial way that the Iranian conflict can be resolved - and that's how it's being dealt with (minus the EU, they have no real security department as of now and also have no more business in Iran than the US or NATO does). ElBaradei is supposed to make a trip to Iran and assuming he's not kicked out I see things moving is the right direction.

The US is starting to fall back on the UN now which is a good thing. Ironically, the US in the past has been criticizing the UN so the US's poor standing with the UN currently could actually make it more effective in the Middle East. I'm not saying it's a great idea for superpowers to bash international institutions, but it happens by everyone - not just the US. And keep in mind who is footing the UN's bill before you criticize.

[Displaced]

What? Do you honestly think that arabs dislike us more than Israel itself? So you're suggesting that all of the Arab/Israel problems could be solved by the US just stepping aside?

I only wish that it were that easy.

llater,
Tony

Again, i havent said that, what im saying is that the general populous of the ME dislikes the US, being US backed add's fuel to their fire.

Anti-semetism and anti israeli feelign wont disappear overnight, its deep seeded, but it would be a start.

[Kolar]

This is the most beneficial way that the Iranian conflict can be resolved - and that's how it's being dealt with (minus the EU, they have no real security department as of now and also have no more business in Iran than the US or NATO does). ElBaradei is supposed to make a trip to Iran and assuming he's not kicked out I see things moving is the right direction.

The US is starting to fall back on the UN now which is a good thing. Ironically, the US in the past has been criticizing the UN so the US's poor standing with the UN currently could actually make it more effective in the Middle East. I'm not saying it's a great idea for superpowers to bash international institutions, but it happens by everyone - not just the US. And keep in mind who is footing the UN's bill before you criticize.

I thought you had me on ignore. The US makes up 25% of the UN buget, as of December 31, 2005 the current back payment owed by the United States is 252$ million and rising. In all the memebers of the security council owe 333$ million and have cut off most if not all voluntary funding.
On another note the US borrows 1 billion USD$ a day for general operations across the nation. Only the intrest is paid off on that amount each time the buget is made up.

I actually saw some idiots arguing about this in Planetside not 20 minutes ago. Sure, you can bash it. criticizing the UN on real issues like not being effective enough or being corrupt is valid. It would be a good idea to fund it properly not under fund it when you disklike a report or two placing human rights abuses of the USA next to Iran and China. That just sends the wrong signals to smaller nations and to undemocratic states that there is no accountibility ever at the top. I still feel there are elements in the United States that wish to execute plans for the middle east regardless of what the UN or any country has to say about it. The long term goals of the West and that of the US are greatly different. Iran is going to turn into a war no matter what happens in the next few months.

[RednaZ]

GWB does not play Golf. His father did during the 1st Gulf War as well as fished everyday.

You're probably joking, but just in case you're not:

http://images.google.com/images?q=bu...=Search+Images

[genocidal]

I thought you had me on ignore.

No.

The US makes up 25% of the UN buget, as of December 31, 2005 the current back payment owed by the United States is 252$ million and rising. In all the memebers of the security council owe 333$ million and have cut off most if not all voluntary funding.

You've cut to the heart of the problem with international institutions. The US still funds a major part of the UN and without that funding (and peacekeeping support by the US military) the UN would be FAR less effective.

On another note the US borrows 1 billion USD$ a day for general operations across the nation. Only the intrest is paid off on that amount each time the buget is made up.

I remember having this discussion with some dumb Euro like Ratty a while back. The US government owes US banks - it's not like we owe Canada the money, we owe ourselves. And there is no way in Christ all the lenders are going to call in loans on the US government. Once another government can come up with that kind of funding then maybe they can be a superpower. Until then, we'll keep spending almost $500 billion dollars on the defense budget plus another $100 billion in Iraq and another measly few millions on human rights because we can.

I actually saw some idiots arguing about this in Planetside not 20 minutes ago. Sure, you can bash it. criticizing the UN on real issues like not being effective enough or being corrupt is valid. It would be a good idea to fund it properly not under fund it when you disklike a report or two placing human rights abuses of the USA next to Iran and China. That just sends the wrong signals to smaller nations and to undemocratic states that there is no accountibility ever at the top. I still feel there are elements in the United States that wish to execute plans for the middle east regardless of what the UN or any country has to say about it. The long term goals of the West and that of the US are greatly different. Iran is going to turn into a war no matter what happens in the next few months.

You probably misinterpreted what I was saying. I'm a staunch believer in the UN. It performs very poorly in regards to security and probably will never perform well in that aspect. However, its peacekeeping forces and humanitarian aid are excellent features as well as the idea of having nearly every country in the world have some outlet of expression. Nevertheless, any moron will realize that it has huge shortcomings that, without an international police force (not possible), will never be remedied.

[404 Not Found]

You're probably joking, but just in case you're not:

http://images.google.com/images?q=bu...=Search+Images

I was not joking...yes he does play golf, but the difference is that during the 1st Gulf War, the media would film George Senior always on his boat fishing or golfing.

The pics that you have linked are obviously of GWB, but notice that they are taken with his wind breaker on or with his Blue or Red shirt on. Most likely from 3 separate outings. We see enough of him on the news every evening here in the States to know he is not on the back 9 every day.