Excessive Force Case from My hometown

[gran guerrero]

I'd like to believe officers have better training to tell the difference of a gun and a taser when they are holding it, they don't weigh the same.

And cops are trained to think calmly during the "heat of the moment", that's not an excuse.

they arent friggen cia or secret ops

they are cops. training or not. still ordinary people. stop watching the movies. cops get scared too.

[Richard Creager]

sage

[Liquid Blue]

they arent friggen cia or secret ops

they are cops. training or not. still ordinary people. stop watching the movies. cops get scared too.

My dad was a cop for 30+ years, their training is supposed to help them make sensible desicions even when they are scared. I know this isn't the movies and I'm not expecting cops to make perfect decisions all the time, but one of the main points about being a cop is maintaining a cool head under pressure. If you're going to use a weapon on an individual and you can't tell the difference between your gun and your taser than there is something wrong- like I siad before, this wasn't a situation where he needed to use his weapon right away.

[Sarien]

LB has it mostly spot on. But it's also that the mistake was that he went up, and not down. For instance, if it were a deadly situation and by mistake he shot a guy with his taser instead of his weapon, well he'd have to live with whatever consequences occured, but it wouldn't be most assuredly a career ending mistake. However, he used deadly force when it wasn't warranted. The guy could've died.

She feared for the life of her partner, as the hispanic man was on top of her partner supposedly holding a tazer. People have been going crazy about this. It definitly could have been corrupt cops not following procedure, but there is no hard evidence that they weren't following procedure. The cop was at fault for not securing her tazer, but in a situation where you fear for the life of your partner you should end the situation in the best way possible. Everyone is crying racism since it was two white cops against one hispanic male...but eh, the people supporting him are uneducated.

I'm not uneducated. If she shot the guy for holding what she believed at the time was her tazer, then she should be and is going to be nailed to the wall for it. Remember they use tazers as non deadly force. How exactly did she fear for the life of her partner? If he zapped her partner and was pulling out his gun? Sure, ok. But there's a world of options before you get to deadly force. They're supposed to try to exercise them all and only use their firearms when they have no other choice.

I can't see any way that it was an accident.

You wouldn't fire a leg shot with a taser.

You would if he were wearing shorts, or the clothing there would allow penetration of the dart.

in texas if osmeone is on your property i believe you're allowed one shot at them wether u kill them or not its your property, same with living in apartments if u see someone trying to steal your car or or stereo you're allowed 1 shot to protect your property, you CAN kill them and walk away but a cop? they need to show some restraint or intelligence

Anyone that follows that advice is going to end up in prison. Look up "Duty to retreat"

I can quote the Texas state statutes if necessary. But they are Chapter 9 of the Texas State Penal Code, entitled 'Justification Excluding Criminal Responsibility' Subchapter C. Section 9.32, and Subchapter D. Section 9.42.
It's more complicated than "you come on my land and I shoot", even in Texas.

http://www.capitol.state.tx.us/statu....000009.00.htm

[Mantra-Slider]

lol at someone being shot for sitting in a tree. LOL!!!!!!

on a more serious note this is really horrible I hope the policeman lose his job and gets a big big big fine. so big he will become psychotic and climbing up trees.


"I'll bring you fat juicy worms
I'll bring you millipedes
Open your beak and close your eyes
We're gonna live in the trees"

[Hark]

I'm not uneducated. If she shot the guy for holding what she believed at the time was her tazer, then she should be and is going to be nailed to the wall for it. Remember they use tazers as non deadly force. How exactly did she fear for the life of her partner? If he zapped her partner and was pulling out his gun? Sure, ok. But there's a world of options before you get to deadly force. They're supposed to try to exercise them all and only use their firearms when they have no other choice.

Ok, lets say that tazers can't kill people(even though under circumstances they have killed people), and the cop was you and the partner was your friend. If a guy started a fight with you and your friend, and was sitting on top of your friend pummeling him. Would you stand by and doing nothing? If you were a lot smaller then the man hurting your friend, and all your non-lethal options were not accessible? (I'm not 100% sure, but I think they maced the guy already) What would you do in that situation? The answer is you'd help your friend in any way possible. In that situation the only thing left was lethal force.

Now this is just information based off of what I read in the newspaper/see on the news. The incident could have gone down completely differently. The officers were out of range of their dash cams.

[Hark]

My dad was a cop for 30+ years, their training is supposed to help them make sensible desicions even when they are scared. I know this isn't the movies and I'm not expecting cops to make perfect decisions all the time, but one of the main points about being a cop is maintaining a cool head under pressure. If you're going to use a weapon on an individual and you can't tell the difference between your gun and your taser than there is something wrong- like I siad before, this wasn't a situation where he needed to use his weapon right away.

My dad was a cop too. Instincts/adrenaline will make training go away in the heat of the moment. He was only a 5 year vet, and probably hadn't seen much action. Experience is the deciding factor on quick reactions. He obviously didn't have that much, and it could cost him his job. I'll say it again...the tazer has a pistol grip. Its supposed to feel like a pistol because cops know how to shoot pistols.

Also, you said that this wasnt a situation where he needed to use his weapon right away. You don't know that, and have nothing to base that on. The news report said that the man was "growing increasingly hostile" which could of meant a lot of things. An officer is supposed to neutralize a hostile target before injuries occur. Thats what he attempted to do. He fucked up, yes, but its a justifiable incident. Its a big mistake, and he should be put on probation/paid leave/take more training classes for similiar circumstances. People make mistakes, and this man was lucky he didn't kill the man in the tree. Losing his job is understandable because he easily could of killed him. I'm not fighting for this point anymore. I'm fighting for the point that its possible to make a mistake like that. I wasn't there, and its possible he shot him for no reason. Going off the information I have been presented, it is EXTREMELY LIKELY he mistaked his tazer for his pistol.

[Doc Flabby]

If they wanted to get the guys down from the tree the best thing they could have done is brought a chainsaw out and started sawing. He would have got the idea soon enough.

The problem you have is police carrying guns at all.

Carrying a weapon for protection ironically makes you far more likly to be shot.

The vaste majority of people wouldnt shoot/knife an unarmed person, however is that person is holding a weapon its fair game. The is far less guilt in killing a person able to defend themselves than one who is not.

Police should be there to serve the comunity, they dont need guns.

Its like alot police car chases. They often make a situation dangerous that could have been avoided. The police dont need to chase the car hard, just get a chopper in the sky and follow the fuckers. Then radio the police on the ground where they are, they can just stroll in and arrest them.

Its not hard to catch criminals this way.

The problem is its not very fun. You dont get to beat people, or shoot them, or drive like a maniac.

[geekbot]

What would you do in that situation? The answer is you'd help your friend in any way possible. In that situation the only thing left was lethal force.

omg, i'm afraid for my life because that guy sitting up in a tree is threating to pee on me from his altitudinally advantagous position.

[Liquid Blue]

My dad was a cop too. Instincts/adrenaline will make training go away in the heat of the moment. He was only a 5 year vet, and probably hadn't seen much action. Experience is the deciding factor on quick reactions. He obviously didn't have that much, and it could cost him his job. I'll say it again...the tazer has a pistol grip. Its supposed to feel like a pistol because cops know how to shoot pistols.

Also, you said that this wasnt a situation where he needed to use his weapon right away. You don't know that, and have nothing to base that on. The news report said that the man was "growing increasingly hostile" which could of meant a lot of things. An officer is supposed to neutralize a hostile target before injuries occur. Thats what he attempted to do. He fucked up, yes, but its a justifiable incident. Its a big mistake, and he should be put on probation/paid leave/take more training classes for similiar circumstances. People make mistakes, and this man was lucky he didn't kill the man in the tree. Losing his job is understandable because he easily could of killed him. I'm not fighting for this point anymore. I'm fighting for the point that its possible to make a mistake like that. I wasn't there, and its possible he shot him for no reason. Going off the information I have been presented, it is EXTREMELY LIKELY he mistaked his tazer for his pistol.

If you're going to go the route and say I had no idea whether or not this situation warrented a quick, decisive action, then how are you going to sit on the other side of the fence and say that it's a justifiable incident?

Instincts/adrenaline will make training go away in the heat of the moment.

The training that cops go through is supposed to become like a second instinct so this type of stuff does not happen. Once they become cops, precaution and clear-thinking are stressed even more- guns are not toys, and you need to be able to think in the heat of the moment if you're going to carry one around every day.

Ontop of that, this wasn't a situation that would justify him shooting the man. Why? According to the article, and what Squeezer told us,the suspect did not have a weapon, did not have a hostage, was basically just acting like a crazy hobo, only sitting up in a tree. Increasingly hostile usually means the guy just got agitated and started screaming or throwing branches, if the officer thought he had a weapon or if the guy took out a kid's eye that would have also been in the story. Newspapers and stations don't leave out "juicy" details like that, especially considering that would have helped the officers story.


There's always room for making mistakes, the problem is that alot of mistakes can be avoided by clear-thinking and experience. No if ands or buts about it, this is not the type of job that allows alot of room for mistakes.

[Hark]

[QUOTE=Liquid Blue]Increasingly hostile usually means the guy just got agitated and started screaming or throwing branches, if the officer thought he had a weapon or if the guy took out a kid's eye that would have also been in the story. QUOTE]

Usually. Which means you don't know 100%.

Anyways, if you were trying to get the guy out of the tree, and he was trying to hurt you would you stand by and let him do it? They obviously tried to coax the guy down from the tree, and he wouldn't budge. The next thing up is non-lethal force to remove him since the man most likely didn't let them near the tree. They tried, and the man made a mistake.

P.S.-I'm a photojournalism major. I know all about precise word choice. gg.

[Liquid Blue]

Then you would also know about which words not to use, right?

I'm not going to state the exact definition of a situation or what exactly happened when again, I wasn't there. Saying " increasingly hostile means this this and this, period. The guy was only doing this this and blah blah blah". To give off the impression that I know exactly what happened when I wasn't there is worse than taking the facts presented to me and basing an assumption off of experiences from the past.

I understand what happens, and I understand the cop made a mistake. The point is, this isn't a job where you can make alot of mistakes if you plan to have a long career. He should have known from the weight of a gun that it wasn't a taser that he pulled, if we want to assume that he didn't take his eyes off the target. If he did, all the more reason why he should have seen that he was pulling his gun. Sucks to be him, shit happens.