Can a Brit explain this to me please?

[Jeansi]

I don't like to step on the laws of any other country,

From the mouth of an american.

oh the irony of life.

[Doc Flabby]

Possension of handguns is just illegal in the uk since dunblaine, you cant get a licence for a handgun. However new gun legislation was brought in as a knee jerk reaction by the goverment a couple of years ago following a series of gangland shootings in which some kids got killed. The new law is that there is a mandatory minimum sentance of 5 years for possesion of an illegal firearm. They are thinking of introducing the same thing for knives.

The judge is still allowed some leway though and gave him the mimimum he could under this new law. With the old laws he probably would have got off with just got a fine and his licence revoked.

New Labour has made alot of badly thought though laws like the one that means a child rapist will be out in 5 years when they are given a life sentence...Its a joke.

I personally would like to see the people who ARE a threat to society locked up and stop locking up the people who arn't....This case if anything proves why mandatory jail terms are wrong. All circumstances are different.

[Supreme Authority]

I personally would like to see the people who ARE a threat to society locked up and stop locking up the people who arn't....This case if anything proves why mandatory jail terms are wrong. All circumstances are different.

But then we would have 2 pay for them, being in jail is kinda expensive...
Why not kill em and get it over with

Sarien, rather a coward then 6 feet under with 3 bullets in my head :P

[Refer]

this is the eternal conflict between moral and legal issues. it's so hard to judge each case...... but seriously he shouldn't break the law

[Adrenaline Rush]

Despite the ban on military use, hollow point bullets are one of the most common types of civilian and police ammunition, due largely to the reduced risk of bystanders being hit by over-penetrating or ricocheted bullets, and the increased speed of incapacitation. In many jurisdictions, it is illegal to hunt game with ammunition that does not expand, and some target ranges also forbid full metal jacket ammunition.

[Epinephrine]

Gun bans are by far some of the most moronic sets of laws on the face of the earth. They're nonsensical and only serve to make pussies "feel safer". If you're scared of guns for just existing, not talking about being used against you, mind you. Just the fact that they exist and make you uncomfortable, you're not an enlightened human being. You're a coward. 500 years ago you would've been the type of person to yell "WITCH!" at the top of your lungs and try to get someone burned to death for other things that made you uncomfortable or that you couldn't understand.

Wow I always thought you were a level-headed guy until I read this...

Most gun deaths occur in the home, either from accidental shootings (kids raiding the gun cabinet) or from domestic issues where there is a gun in the home. Gun control if done correctly, can severely decrease the incidence of these.

As for the other effect of gun control, it's a plain fact that countries with real gun control have much less gun-related deaths from non-home related homicides than countries which don't. Just looking at the USA and Canada which are so similar in so many respects (with gun control being a huge difference) shows how different it can be. It's very easy to kill someone, rob someone, or attack someone with a gun, but much harder with a knife or baseball bat because then the other party actually CAN fight back.

And if you think having a gun in the home can 'protect' you from being mugged at gunpoint or being attacked by other people with guns, I think you're sorely mistaken. It's not like you carry around the weapon at all times (unless you're a nut) and even if you do... if someone has a gun pointed at you, how are you going to find the time to get your gun out, load it and turn off the safety without them shooting you first?

[D1st0rt]

I could be wrong but I thought the initial intent of the 2nd amendment was so that citizens could protect themselves if the fledgling government destabilized.

To quote my man Chris Rock, we don't need gun control. We need bullet control. (Guns don't kill people, they just make bullets go reeeeeealllly fast)

[Sarien]

Ok lemme see, lots of stuff since I last responded, let me run down the list of things I feel like I need to say.

Sydi: I can see that this would end up being a fight. A kind of a waste of time and energy. I think that viewpoint is incredibly simplistic, and tramples all over the freedom that grownup men and women should be allowed to enjoy. You apparently see it differently, however.

Emaho: Anything really. Target Shooting, To simply enjoy owning, and enjoying the engineering. It's a bit much to assume that mister headmaster gun collector is the next Osama, don't you think? As a personal example, in a single day of target shooting, me, my brother, and 2 friends fired off over a thousand rounds, with nothing more sinister happening than some guys having some fun.

Jeansi: We get it, you're from Finland and you hate Americans. That's easily as much a stereotype as the one you tried to lay on me. Nevermind that with my citizen's voice, my vote, I voted against Bush (both times), and was dead set against an invasion of Iraq from the get go. Good one.

Doc Flabby: Holy crap. I'm impressed, and I'm not joking. I'm serious. I always thought of you as being probably a simpleton, probably because of your avatar for some reason. That view has been completely readjusted. It's a good explanation and one I was looking for. Thanks.

Supreme Authority: I was never talking about fear of being shot. Anyone would be scared into wetting themselves in that kind of situation.

Refer: Excellent post, and I agree 100%.

Adrenaline Rush: I am glad to see someone else knows the technicals of these things, instead of being blinded and bigoted by reputation alone.

Epi: More level headed than you think. You're talking about gun control. I'm talking about gun bans. They are two decidedly different things. I am not against waiting periods, because what's the only justification for that? "But I won't be MAD three days from now!" doesn't quite cut it. I am not against registering to be an owner. I am not against forbidding guns from the hands of violent repeat offenders. Gun Bans are however, something else entirely. They outlaw them, and in some cases in some countries will allow permits for legal weapons. In essence you have to beg your government for permission to own a gun. That much I'm dead set against. If I want to own a pistol or a rifle or what have you, I'm fine with being even required to register it. You aren't asking permission, you're giving notification as to "I own this." A big difference, than having to ask Mommy and Daddy if you're allowed to play.

Distort: That is one aspect of many. One is being allowed to protect yourself from any outside influence that would violate your right to life or liberty. Criminals, Bears, Rabid Deer, Space Aliens, Governements, anything. Once they cross the line and attempt you harm, they forfeit their own right to safety, and you have the right to protect yourself in the best manner you are able. Another is just the liberty aspect.

I enjoy owning guns, and firing guns. I'm from northeast Kentucky. The very first time I fired a weapon, I was four years old, and had drummed into me gun safety from that time onward. I could hunt for food, if necessary, but it isn't, so I don't. The last time I went hunting I was about 12 years old. I don't like hunting for sport. That to me, has never been something I've been comfortable with, and trophy hunting is just downright evil. If you deem it necessary to hunt down and kill an animal, I believe it should be for more of a reason than to collect horns or fur. I do love to target shoot though. I enjoy the engineering of a well made firearm, and even the science behind using a controlled explosion to propel a projectile. I love the technical skill that target shooting requires, even when it seems like it is nothing more than pointing and shooting. To me, it's fun. So with my freedom of choice, I like to enjoy these things. It's my right. I don't harm anyone else with them, and wouldn't, unless it were imperative that I had to do so.

[Izor]

Being right-wing myself I still cant justify him having illegal guns/ammo. Maybe the guns I can forgive, but the hollow points..theres no need to have those unless you plan on doing some damage to someone.

[Zerzera]

Explaination: there's a law and he broke it, the penalty is up to 5 years. No matter what an American thinks about this law.

I don't think you should step on the laws of other countries, especially not when American. You lock people away much longer over soft-drugs, you hype over euthanasia, you lock people in camps without any trial, you have the deathpenalty.

Yes you should look at other countries and frown.

[Aquatiq]

i meant it was 'left-wing' as in he's using the guy's credentials as reasons why his sentence is too harsh, nothing to do with guns

[Denon]

Four years does seem alot... especially when you think that in the last week I remember someone being done for manslaughter and only got an 18 month sentence.

[winipcfg]

I could be wrong but I thought the initial intent of the 2nd amendment was so that citizens could protect themselves if the fledgling government destabilized.

True.

I'm from northeast Kentucky.

I think that just about explains it.

The only problem, Sarien, seems to be that you disagree with English laws. K. Well, good thing you don't live in the UK. That's just how things are done in the UK, while in the US gun control is a whole different matter.

The same would be true if in Uzfuckistan rape was legal. The rest of the world would be pissed off, but the people living in that country must accept the laws.

This guy was living in the UK. He is, therefore, subject to English laws. He broke the law. The end. It doesn't matter what he was using the guns for, why he had them, or what all he had. The simple fact is that he illegally possesed guns, and now he's going to jail. Granted, I think a 5-year sentence is a bit harsh, but whatever.

[Suh]

Four years does seem alot... especially when you think that in the last week I remember someone being done for manslaughter and only got an 18 month sentence.

circumstantial?

we have yet to adopt an american style system inwhich the conviction displays the level of blamesworthiness i.e "first/second degree murder"

a conviction of manslaughter could seriously be anything, a result of provocation or diminished responsibility (vol manslaughter) or unlawful act manslaughter to gross negligence which are invol manslaughter charges. i always thought that to go with a crime we need a scale that reflects the fault of the crime.

such as convictions of rape have no distinguishing elements, so effectly your conviction of rape (statatory rape) could have the circumstances of a violent rape, date rape, "no-half way through" rape, drug rape, drunken consent rape, even consentual sex with your partner that is under 16 is classed as rape, to many of us this isnt rape, but your still going to carry that stigma around with you for the rest of your life and it can even result in your death, i.e the fiasco of the sex offenders registry.

not knowing the facts of your case denon it could be a case of judges and the parole board handing out a light sentance, however it could also be a euthanasia case (coxs) or a battered wifes syndrome case in which the judge feels that the defentant doesnt deserve more than 18 months. sentacing maybe this judges way of reflecting the blamesworthiness of this person as they have just been slapped with a conviction of "MANSLAUGHTER", which will fellow them for the rest of their lifes, imagine having that on your CV.

probs the former tho

[Doc Flabby]

Judges are being activly encoraged by the home office not to send people to jail (or give long sentances) because the prisons are full.

Ironically they are then critised by the same people telling them this for sentancing to leinently....

Its estimated in November this year prisions in the uk will run out of room. Lack of prisions is the problem in terms of the length on sentences....