Bush Admits We Aren't Winning Iraq War

[Ara]

Yawn, there are still worse dictators in the world than what Saddam Hussein was.
So it would be ok to attack North-Korea, Turkmenistan, Gabon, Angola,
Guinea-Bissau, Zimbabwe, Egypt, Cameroon, Tunisia, Sudan, Chad, The Gambia,
Central African Republic, Mauritania, Cuba, Uzbekistan, Azerbaijan, Maldives,
Pakistan, Myanmar, Thailand, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, United Arab Emirate,
Iran, Syria, Belarus?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_dictators

I'll make it easy for you FarScape, here's a map where you can just pinpoint
all the red countries (lead by a dictator) where you want the US Army to attack.



With out even knowing the country's name! But it has a bad dictator in it, it
must be done.

And your comment "well, almost every war in the world was supported by the
big nations (russia, usa, france and UK). " I will just ignore and forgive you.

[Predator Rulez]

But no one did care about World War II until their own country was ATTACKED. America didn't declare war on Germany until UBoats started sinking American ships. America didn't declare war on Japan until Pearl Harbor. I don't see your point.

truth

[Subjugation]

I couldnt care less if their civilians die with the terrorists. Thats the price to pay for not reporting them to US authorities....and moving the hell out of Iraq.

Not to pile on, but that's just really simpleminded. From what I understand snitches get stiches---errr...their families RPG'd.

Is all the stuff about the police being infiltrated a total fabrication? What about the "roving death squads"? You're telling me it's safe to rat on the insurgents with no fear of reprisals upon you or your family?

[Mantra-Slider]

yeah eph..

But if you knew that this would happend all along its really hard not to say "I told you so" (humans, sigh)

For me personally, not that I could ever really do it tho, Im not a genius :x, Its hard to offer constructive solutions when pretty much everything in this *conflict* goes against all my naive views and values

[Ephemeral]

yeah eph..

But if you knew that this would happend all along its really hard not to say "I told you so" (humans, sigh)

For me personally, not that I could ever really do it tho, Im not a genius :x, Its hard to offer constructive solutions when pretty much everything in this *conflict* goes against all my naive views and values

Yes, I think that it was known by most people that this was not going to be a easy and quick fix. You do not plant a seed and expect fruit quickly. It is clear that many people simply want a quick fix and this is certainly an opportunity to say "I told you so". (Almost like how the TW community acts towards the fact that there is no quick fix for the shrinking TW popularity. Try implementing a few changes, they do not deliver immediate positive results, people say 'I told you so".)


But what of the bigger picture? Who has a solution for a country who has a ruler that is committing genocide?
- The UN? LOL The UN is completely disfunctional and has not been able to solve any issues like these (peacekeepers who get deployed and stand around isn't going to fix anything).
- Trade embargos? They only hurt the population while the ruler lives the high life.
- Apathy? The world turns it head and ignores it?
- Stealth? Send some spys in and just take out the ruler?

Or?

[Ara]

My ideas for a cure for the world would be: (as naive as they are, but who is
to say what cannot be, those in power?)

- education, the most important step to building a constitution for lasting improvements

- separating religion and government, religion is the seed of all evil, supporting
ignorance and hatred (in most cases) with lies and false facts

- true democracy or a variation of it where no single man has too much power
and that power has to be earned again or given to someone else/others after
a short period of time by the public

- no unbalanced richness, we can't live like this for long, stealing from the
poor countries' natural resources and keeping them uneducated and unable
to collect the recourses by themselves, a world where a guy bouncing an
orange ball earns more than a whole village in another country will bring conflicts

- a world run by people, not companies like Coca-Cola, McDonald's, Exxon, etc

- human rights to everyone

A country can be cured from the inside only, through willing people.

[SEAL]

So start this idea with TW, Ara.

Step one: He, with the highest bounty in ?go javs, will have a red coloured ship. More fun.

[Lizard Fuel]

[QUOTE=Zerzera;533089]Didn't you just say you chickened out of Iraq because it was a shit hole? "I am a soldier, but if I don't like a war, I leave"

No, I never said anything like that. I don't know who you think you are to question my motives for ending my service with the military. I enlisted after the 9/11 attacks at WTC knowing full well what I was getting myself into. I signed up to get revenge for "my people" if you will. My priorities have changed since 2001. I have a wife and a daughter now that need me home, and not in Iraq every other year. Also, Yes, I expect the Iraqi civilians to just "bend over" as you so tactfully put it, for the US. I could name several instances where we were tipped off by a civilian about an ambush, IED, weapons cache's etc. What we are doing is offering these civilians MONEY to let us save thei lives. If they are too scared to let us help them, then fuck em, and everyone that looks like them. I have no remorse for a civilian who pissed off the wrong people and got his entire family beheaded. The country is a mess, due in part to our occupying it I know, but the rules that govern us are too strict with ROE. If bush adapts a little more to the needs of the ground war, we will be out of Iraq by the end of 07. <My train of thought has been derailed>

[Epinephrine]

Yes, I think that it was known by most people that this was not going to be a easy and quick fix. You do not plant a seed and expect fruit quickly. It is clear that many people simply want a quick fix and this is certainly an opportunity to say "I told you so". (Almost like how the TW community acts towards the fact that there is no quick fix for the shrinking TW popularity. Try implementing a few changes, they do not deliver immediate positive results, people say 'I told you so".)


But what of the bigger picture? Who has a solution for a country who has a ruler that is committing genocide?
- The UN? LOL The UN is completely disfunctional and has not been able to solve any issues like these (peacekeepers who get deployed and stand around isn't going to fix anything).
- Trade embargos? They only hurt the population while the ruler lives the high life.
- Apathy? The world turns it head and ignores it?
- Stealth? Send some spys in and just take out the ruler?

Or?

If the intention of Iraq was to stop genocide... Americans are decades too late to stop those few thousand kurds from getting gassed. Should have went to Darfur instead and stopped 2-3 million people from getting slaughtered.

Other greater humanitarian works include perhaps:
-Taking over Cambodia and stopping the 700,000 person strong sex slave trade.
-Sending in troops to Congo to ensure free and open elections and stop the killing there (Aproximately 5 million dead since Mobutu died)
-Actually keeping enough troops in Afghanistan to take out the Taliban for good and rebuild the country instead of doing a half-assed job in the REAL country that actually helped Al Queda


Forcibly destroying Iraq is perhaps the worst 'humanitarian' cause the US could have done.

[Epinephrine]

Also, Yes, I expect the Iraqi civilians to just "bend over" as you so tactfully put it, for the US. I could name several instances where we were tipped off by a civilian about an ambush, IED, weapons cache's etc. What we are doing is offering these civilians MONEY to let us save thei lives. If they are too scared to let us help them, then fuck em, and everyone that looks like them. I have no remorse for a civilian who pissed off the wrong people and got his entire family beheaded.

So you EXPECT them "bend over" [and tip Americans off] so they can piss off the wrong people and get their entire family beheaded and then have no remorse for it? And then fuck them and EVERYONE THAT LOOKS LIKE THEM? Good thing only 'dirtbags' stay in the army.

[Galleleo]

Fluffz, you stated that you cannot defeat a culture by force, never. I was simply stating that China defeated Tibet with force, I am not saying Tibet would have won if they would have fought, I was simply talking to your statement.

[FarScape]

Ara you dont understand one thing.

you talk in a very cynical tone, but you are actually right. if the UN for example wasnt full of dumb people, maybe we wouldnt have those gay dictatorships cut down. but its funny that those shitty countries vote againts my country for example, againts human rights. -_-

If all were united againts them, what they couldve done?
after the world war II USA and USSR did it in europe, why not doing it today? now that they have nuclear its kinda lost...

and for my last comment you ignored and forgived, i dont really understand why? it is just true. :turned:

[Kolar]

I enlisted after the 9/11 attacks at WTC knowing full well what I was getting myself into. I signed up to get revenge for "my people" if you will.

The recruiters should have screened you out. No offense or anything but the last thing the military needs are people who A ) Think this is a modern crusade B ) Want some kind of revenge for 9/11.

[Ephemeral]

If the intention of Iraq was to stop genocide... Americans are decades too late to stop those few thousand kurds from getting gassed. Should have went to Darfur instead and stopped 2-3 million people from getting slaughtered.

Other greater humanitarian works include perhaps:
-Taking over Cambodia and stopping the 700,000 person strong sex slave trade.
-Sending in troops to Congo to ensure free and open elections and stop the killing there (Aproximately 5 million dead since Mobutu died)
-Actually keeping enough troops in Afghanistan to take out the Taliban for good and rebuild the country instead of doing a half-assed job in the REAL country that actually helped Al Queda


Forcibly destroying Iraq is perhaps the worst 'humanitarian' cause the US could have done.

I do not think I said the the intention of Iraq was to stop genocide, although I do believe that was one of many reasons.

[Fluffz]

Fluffz, you stated that you cannot defeat a culture by force, never. I was simply stating that China defeated Tibet with force, I am not saying Tibet would have won if they would have fought, I was simply talking to your statement.

they didnt, they might have killed and deported some hundredthousands of people (keep in mind, thats a lot for such a small coutry) by force but thats not what defeated them. today, tibetans are a minority in their own country because china settled millions and millions of people there. 50 years after, this conflict isnt over. once it is there wont be any tibetans left in tibet. and china is doing 10 times better with tibet than america with irak.