Bush Admits We Aren't Winning Iraq War

[Hakaku]

Cry me a river.

Face it, we all knew this was inevitable.

[Zerzera]

Discuss.

AGENT ORANGE!! WOOOW, what did you expect? A country without civilians?
Why would you attack a country if you want to kill anyone who's in it?

[Zeebu]

i havent read most of this page but here

http://www.theonion.com/content/node/56628

[Lizard Fuel]

AGENT ORANGE!! WOOOW, what did you expect? A country without civilians?
Why would you attack a country if you want to kill anyone who's in it?

I couldnt care less if their civilians die with the terrorists. Thats the price to pay for not reporting them to US authorities....and moving the hell out of Iraq.

[404 Not Found]

Also, for the record....how many people in this thread (aside from me) have actually been to Iraq (twice) to see what it is actually like? Yes, we are losing this WAR, but its because of reasons that none of you (or very few) have seen. The news doesn't report the rediculous politics that soldiers are required to abide by. The Rules Of Engagement have been altered since March 2003. Its no longer "shoot anything that moves" or even "Shoot in defence" Now its all based upon making Bush look like a good Commander. us soldiers are NOT allowed to return fire without the proper authorization from somebody higher in command. terrorists bombs us...shoot us...then run away because we are no longer allowed to "Shoot to kill" even in the interest of self preservation. The way I see it, the rules that govern today's military need to be adjusted again in order to suit the needs of the mission, which is to eliminate the threat of global terrorism. Discuss.

The Global Threat of Terrorism has doubled if not more by the arrogance and bullshit that has transpired due to our countries invasion/occupation of Iraq. Cheney said we would be seen as liberators with the Iraqi's throwing flowers at us....um ok.

I did not need to go to Iraq to know what a fucked up situation it is. Just look at the Administration we have in office that handled this fiasco....Howdy Doody as president and his posse of the good Folks.

The U.S. had the worlds sympathy for the most part when 9/11 happened. Iran even made note that it backed the U.S. and supported our anger towards terrorism. When the U.S invaded, we did not have the coalition that we thought we would have...we had to rush into Iraq as fast as we could, even with the U.N. envoy still in Iraq checking for the supposed WMD factor.

I feel bad for the troops over there no doubt. Hmmm . . .

For the first time since Vietnam, an organized, robust movement of active-duty US military personnel has publicly surfaced to oppose a war in which they are serving. Those involved plan to petition Congress to withdraw American troops from Iraq.

After appearing only seven weeks ago on the Internet, the Appeal for Redress, brainchild of 29-year-old Navy seaman Jonathan Hutto, has already been signed by nearly 1,000 US soldiers, sailors, Marines and airmen, including dozens of officers — most of whom are on active duty. Not since 1969, when some 1,300 active-duty military personnel signed an open letter in the New York Times opposing the war in Vietnam, has there been such a dramatic barometer of rising military dissent.

The war needs to end and not by the timetable Bush the Decider says.

It's not un-patriotic to voice resentment and anger at the actions of ones government, but rather it is patriotic to express such a freedom. If we didn't have this ability to speak out against such actions, we would be no better than the Cuban government & communist governments we fought against as well as the Nazi's of WWII.

But the U.S. has amazing ways of paying tribute to a president. Maybe Bush will get his face on our currency some day. We gave Andrew Jackson a bill, why not Bush. Jackson only f'd over most of the American Indians and betrayed every treaty we had with them and not to leave ot that he sanctioned the Trail of Tears...for this we give him the honor of being on our currency....what will we do to honor Bush the Decider and Dope.

[Galleleo]

not to start nukes in the cold war brought peace, not to fight brought india freedome, not to fight made austia a huge country untill 100 years ago, a war lost englands its colonies... AND SO ON, you can not defeat a culture by force, not 5000 years ago and not today.

The people in Tibet never fought against China and look where they are.

Do a little check on who put and supported Saddam in power in the 1st place...can you guess? The U.S.A.! Who helped place the Shah of Iran in Power prior to the Islamic Revolution? the U.S.A., Who put Noriega in power as dictator...again...the U.S.A. The U.S. has had its hands involved in everything prior to present when it comes to the crap in the Middle East and South America.

Don't forget about USA funding and training Al Quaida and Osama Bin Laden.

[Zerzera]

I couldnt care less if their civilians die with the terrorists. Thats the price to pay for not reporting them to US authorities....and moving the hell out of Iraq.

We are getting somewhere here. Why wouldn't the Unites States just nuke Iraq then?

[DoTheFandango]

We're still in there? Wake me up in 2009.

[Lizard Fuel]

We are getting somewhere here. Why wouldn't the Unites States just nuke Iraq then?

Because we are not there to simply wipe out every human being in Iraq. We are there only for the bad ones. If the good ones happen to get in the way? Tough luck, but not everyone there deserves to go out in an explosion of fire and radiation.

F.Y.I: The U.S. military offers monetary incentives for turning in terrorists/weapons/explosives. So if the innocent civilians opt to say nothing, its their own fault if they are in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Cylor]

Before anyone in Europe judges us, know that for every American like Ephemeral there are twenty more like Lizard Fuel.

[Lizard Fuel]

Before anyone in Europe judges us, know that for every American like Ephemeral there are twenty more like Lizard Fuel.

I don't get it

[Ephemeral]

For the first time since Vietnam, an organized, robust movement of active-duty US military personnel has publicly surfaced to oppose a war in which they are serving. Those involved plan to petition Congress to withdraw American troops from Iraq.

After appearing only seven weeks ago on the Internet, the Appeal for Redress, brainchild of 29-year-old Navy seaman Jonathan Hutto, has already been signed by nearly 1,000 US soldiers, sailors, Marines and airmen, including dozens of officers — most of whom are on active duty. Not since 1969, when some 1,300 active-duty military personnel signed an open letter in the New York Times opposing the war in Vietnam, has there been such a dramatic barometer of rising military dissent.

The war needs to end and not by the timetable Bush the Decider says.

It's not un-patriotic to voice resentment and anger at the actions of ones government, but rather it is patriotic to express such a freedom. If we didn't have this ability to speak out against such actions, we would be no better than the Cuban government & communist governments we fought against as well as the Nazi's of WWII.

But the U.S. has amazing ways of paying tribute to a president. Maybe Bush will get his face on our currency some day. We gave Andrew Jackson a bill, why not Bush. Jackson only f'd over most of the American Indians and betrayed every treaty we had with them and not to leave ot that he sanctioned the Trail of Tears...for this we give him the honor of being on our currency....what will we do to honor Bush the Decider and Dope.

The military demographics is an important difference between Vietnam and Iraq. The Vietnam era US military was largely drafted while the currently US military is not. I think another important difference between the two is the average age of the fighting soldier. Today’s soldier is much older than during the Vietnam era. Lizard Fuel can probably speak to this better than I, but I have to think that part of that difference includes being 18 (the ‘nothing can hurt me, I will never die’ perspective) and more mature (‘hey, I have a wife and kids at home’) perspective.

[Fluffz]

The people in Tibet never fought against China and look where they are.

yes, fighting a war against china would sure have had an happy end, what were they thinking

[Lizard Fuel]

The military demographics is an important difference between Vietnam and Iraq. The Vietnam era US military was largely drafted while the currently US military is not. I think another important difference between the two is the average age of the fighting soldier. Today’s soldier is much older than during the Vietnam era. Lizard Fuel can probably speak to this better than I, but I have to think that part of that difference includes being 18 (the ‘nothing can hurt me, I will never die’ perspective) and more mature (‘hey, I have a wife and kids at home’) perspective.

I cant speak for the vietnam era, because I only know what I was forced to learn through school, plus Ive never much cared to look deeper into it, but when It comes to Iraq, I would have to say that today's "all volunteer" army is garbage. I say this because the average soldier (me for example) is getting the hell out because I don't want to go to Iraq every other year for 20 years just to get a pension at the end. On the other hand, the average soldier that is STAYING IN the army, are dirtbags. These are the soldiers that would go to jail if they didnt have the military, and consistently get reduced in rank because of drug use/DUI/beating their wife etc. By no means does this mean EVERY soldier that wants to do 20 years in a dirtbag, but a majority of them are.

Eph - Do you understand the comparison Cylor made of you and me? I still don't get it

[Troll King]

I think you'll be hard pressed to support that "dirtbag" stance. Regardless of what you think of the war, the fact that they are putting their lives on the line in your country's name means they deserve more than a pithy statement made with little to no statistical backing.