The beginning of something bigger?

[genocidal]

Ethiopia declared war on Somalia here.

The horn of Africa is a much neglected hotspot so this sounds pretty significant to me in terms of current Middle East conflicts. Of course the war in its own right is something significant but what do you think this could mean for the future between Islam and the West, very generally?

Do you think that the current administration will be too busy with its thumbs up Iraq's ass that they won't do anything about this? What do you think the UN response will be? Should the US and other nations do something about this? Is this a potential sparkplug for the conflict being fought generally in the Middle East?

[Da1andonly]

I just find it quite spectacular that there's a new war every year down there, and every year they believe that winning a war will actually make something better for them. Which it never does.

[Galleleo]

Africa being fucked up all goes back to the colonial times. Because "we" (the western people) gave Africa new borders, right through tribes, putting rival tribes together in one country, separating tribes into 2 countries. Etc. That is where all the fighting comes from in Africa. People in those countries all belong to different tribes and thus don't really get along.

[Money]

congratulations to Europe for fucking up Africa!!

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Do you think that the current administration will be too busy with its thumbs up Iraq's ass that they won't do anything about this? What do you think the UN response will be? Should the US and other nations do something about this? Is this a potential sparkplug for the conflict being fought generally in the Middle East?

I really have this bad feeling that we'll find out that the US is somehow backing Ethiopea with arms/logistics/whatever. The whole part about "Ethiopia has been lending support to Somalia's weak interim government, but the interim government has lost most of its control over Somalia to the Islamic Courts Union." scares the shit out of me that maybe this is a somewhat under-the-guise operation in "The War on Terror." At very least, I don't think the Bush administration will do jack shit officially, just like they didn't do jack in Israel and Lebanon until what... like a week later?

Man, I hate to be so pessimistic and semi-theorist about this, but jesus... sometimes I can't believe all the shit that goes on.

[Dabram]

Africa being fucked up all goes back to the colonial times. Because "we" (the western people) gave Africa new borders, right through tribes, putting rival tribes together in one country, separating tribes into 2 countries. Etc. That is where all the fighting comes from in Africa. People in those countries all belong to different tribes and thus don't really get along.

Although you're correct to say Europe set the borders for those countries, it's incorrect to say that it's the sole reason for all the wars in Africa. Long before Europeans set foot in Africa there was already warfare (as there always has been everywhere in the world).
Yes, Europeans split up tribes and are the reason for the mixed populations in most African countries. Is a mixed population enough to trigger a war? I know humans can be fairly aggressive, but I do believe there's still a few extra elements needed before a group with one cultural background decides it would be best for them to whipe out a group with another cultural background. I have to admit I haven't got the chance to study African History in my university. But I'm pretty sure you can't look over the corrupt rulers (often dictators or 'presidents' who control the elections) who are also in control of education / propaganda, and not to forget, my personal favorite to explain every war that has ever taken placed, the social-economical situations in these countries, as reasons for why these wars take place.

If you wanna blame the Western world, blame the subsidies over agriculture (and the weapon-industry). Getting rid of that would somewhat open up the chances in African countries to develop somewhat economically.. however there's so much more problems in Africa, even in untouchable subjects like work ethics..

[Ewan]

I hope they don't do anything about this, it's none of their business!

[Ephemeral]

Although you're correct to say Europe set the borders for those countries, it's incorrect to say that it's the sole reason for all the wars in Africa. Long before Europeans set foot in Africa there was already warfare (as there always has been everywhere in the world).
Yes, Europeans split up tribes and are the reason for the mixed populations in most African countries. Is a mixed population enough to trigger a war? I know humans can be fairly aggressive, but I do believe there's still a few extra elements needed before a group with one cultural background decides it would be best for them to whipe out a group with another cultural background. I have to admit I haven't got the chance to study African History in my university. But I'm pretty sure you can't look over the corrupt rulers (often dictators or 'presidents' who control the elections) who are also in control of education / propaganda, and not to forget, my personal favorite to explain every war that has ever taken placed, the social-economical situations in these countries, as reasons for why these wars take place.

If you wanna blame the Western world, blame the subsidies over agriculture (and the weapon-industry). Getting rid of that would somewhat open up the chances in African countries to develop somewhat economically.. however there's so much more problems in Africa, even in untouchable subjects like work ethics..

Agreed, mistakes have been made, others will be blamed.

The issues in Africa, the issues in the Mid-east, the issues everywhere are the same 'human' issues that have plagued us since we have walked upright.

No country has an monopoly on greed, inconsideration, selfishness, power. But blaming the Western world is the popular thing to do, just like blaming Microsoft (point the fingers at the 'big' guys). Until people everywhere learn to open their minds and stop with the stereo-typing, the world will continue to be a screwed-up place to live. The TW community also epitomizes the same human flaws, for example those who argue that their ‘right’ to say stupid things somehow trumps the right for others not to be exposed to it.

[Broly]

All of you fuckers in Europe, especially France and England, caused the vast majority of the entrenched problems in Africa, and now that we have cable news you can see what you fucks did, and now you want to help. YOu donate more of a % of your GDP but you dumb shit fucks still do not contribute as much in actual dollars as we do. AND WE DIDN"T CAUSE THE FUCKING PROBLEM! Yet we are the greedy idiots. You just want us to fix your problems because you assholes are too incompetent to do it yourselves. Israel/Palestine? Thanks EUROPE FOR THAT ONE TOO! You fucking cunts are the source for the majority of the worlds most serious problems yet we are the ones who are dumb idiots.

:wub:

[Izor]

roooooooooooooooofl you people are so bad..you try to blame anyone but the dumb fucks that are constantly at war and have been since before we found them and took a few.

[eehh]

congratulations to Europe for fucking up Africa!!

thank you.

congratulations to united states of fattys for fucking up middle east.. go oil

[WuTang420]

thank you.

congratulations to united states of fattys for fucking up middle east.. go oil

oil ftw

[Liquid Blue]

Like Conc said, I think the US is going to sit on it's hands in regards to the situation until the last possible moment.

While wars like this happen all the time in Africa, I don't really know how one can easily place the blame, be it on the greedy dictators in africa, specific countries in europe or whoever. There's so much corruption everywhere around the world that you and so much shit we don't know about the going-ons in Africa that we can't begin to narrow down who is responsible.

I didn't know Europe re-drew those borders though; I'm glad I looked in here. Good topic.

[genocidal]

Yeah most African political boundaries are arbitrary with little to no consideration for the actual people living within those boundaries. Of course that creates problems because these tribes of people never got along before and now that they are forced to be ruled by a different group, have their land ceded to another country, etc. they're going to be pissed and kill each other. Iraq is an Africa-in-the-making with the Sunni and Shi'a conflict.

At least they replaced names like Rhodesia, which was named after Cecil Rhodes, with African names to take some of the colonial allure away. I don't know how it's possible to overhaul but the current political mapping of Africa is clearly not working in many places.

[Pummel]

What the fuck is Somalia.