Fuck College

[IKM]

No, but almost every poor genius does.

QFT. Again, let me remind you all that most of the top school and Ivies are NEED BLIND, meaning that they only see your financial situation after your accepted, and only if you apply for financial aid. And you cannot simply get into the ivies by being rich... you need to be incredibly intelligent (or athletic) and excel in extracurricular activities. The majority of the east coast schools in the United States are need blind, so the only factor in the application process is the students (and any legacy/strange family situations), not the size of some parent's wallet. And do not for a minute assume that just because you get rejected from an ivy that it is discrimination. I know plenty of kids, black, white, rich, poor, all incredibly smart (national merit scholars, 2300+ on their SATs, great grade and transcripts and extracurriculars), who were rejected.

[Squeezer]

That's bs, not every poor smart kid get into an ivy-league school.

No, but almost every poor genius does.

[Galleleo]

That's bs, not every poor smart kid get into an ivy-league school.

[Scurvy]

how much are we looking at here, for an ivy league school, minus all financial aid? i'm wondering how it compares to some of the art schools i applied to.

[genocidal]

Except these universities aren't at all exclusive to rich people - just to smart people.

[Galleleo]

The difference in High School is mainly related to the number of people graduating there, the number of dropouts, and the grades and stuff. Not as to name or fame.

And I am not saying that's the only benefit of being rich. But why add to it? It's like saying, well when you're black you already have disadvantages so denying you this job because your black doesn't matter, because hey, you already have multiple disadvantages in life, what's one more?

So, yes, Rich people already have advantages, why add to that by making certain university's exclusive?

[Epinephrine]

But my point is, I think it's unfair that some people have an advantage because of the school they went too because their daddy is rich. In the Netherlands every University is of a good quality and graduating from one says that you have successfully rounded off a good educational process.

That's a pretty shallow point because if you're rich, you're going to have a LOT more advantages than just whatever school you went to. There's the fact that your friends will probably be rich, your parents will have rich contacts, and they will also be able to probably set you up with good jobs no matter what school you went to. The advantages of being rich are multi-faceted and just thinking that rich = better school, and better school = better job is pretty naive.

And for the record, for almost everything it doesn't matter what school you went to in North America. It matters if you want to be part of some 'old boys club' of rich people, but then again, by simply being rich you will get that advantage anyway. And besides, if the gains of going to a 'top school' in America are as huge as you claim it to be, wouldn't it be worth it to get a bank loan to pay for the education yourself even if you're poor anyway because eventually it will pay off?

[DoTheFandango]

Then what's the point of going to a better high school if everyone gets the same education in college?

I guess that's why you don't see people flocking to the Netherlands for college.

[Galleleo]

In that case, it's pretty silly to compare a tiny country of 16 million with a country of 300 million.

The Netherlands must be a very weird place if no one really cares where you went to school... considering that's somewhat important basically everywhere else in the world.

As I said.. our school system is still a Government institution and every University here gives adds about the same educational value to a student as the next one, so it doesn't really matter which Uni you go to, because graduating from one ensures the company's that you have had a good education. There is bigger difference amongst the high schools I believe, but in matter of applying to a follow up school it doesn't matter as long as your grades are good and you got the diploma.

I don't know about the difference in HBO or MBO schools as I have never even thought about going to one of those.

But my point is, I think it's unfair that some people have an advantage because of the school they went too because their daddy is rich. In the Netherlands every University is of a good quality and graduating from one says that you have successfully rounded off a good educational process.

[pascone]

In that case, it's pretty silly to compare a tiny country of 16 million with a country of 300 million.

The Netherlands must be a very weird place if no one really cares where you went to school... considering that's somewhat important basically everywhere else in the world.

it is weird, they are under the sea level

[Jeansi]

It's maybe not all about "this place has better professors and better education than that place", it might also be the fact that the social network that a student builds up during his studies makes an enormous amount of difference.

Going to a "good" uni and getting to know a lot of the going-to-be leaders of world business guarantees the contacts needed to pursue one's own career later on in life.

[Epinephrine]

In that case, it's pretty silly to compare a tiny country of 16 million with a country of 300 million.

The Netherlands must be a very weird place if no one really cares where you went to school... considering that's somewhat important basically everywhere else in the world.

[Galleleo]

I wasn't talking about Europe, I was talking about the Netherlands, and over here, it doesn't really matter which uni you go too. And there is also nothing wrong with the quality of our uni's. Fact is, we have a lot of professor's who teach at multiple uni's, and the University's are still a government owned institution here. Sure, there one Uni ranks just a bit higher then a different one when it comes to a certain study, but in the end it's all very close and it basically makes no difference.

Our school system is different though. I'll try to explain while keeping the post reasonably short. During primary school we have 8 classes, then you go to High School (around your 12th this is). At the end of your primary school you took a test, that test along with everything else you have done at primary school and how the teachers and your parents thinks about you, decides on which level you go to in High School. We have 3 different levels in High School, VMBO, HAVO en VWO. VMBO takes 4 years and is for the not so smart people and people that are good with their hands. There are 2 different approaches to VMBO, the normal school approach, books, studying, etc. You get less material then in HAVO and VWO and the grading is more loose. (So say you make a test of 50 questions, with 20 wrong you would still have a sufficient grade, while in HAVO this number would lay on 15 and VWO 10, for example). There is also a different approach where you do more with your hands, so next to the books and studying stuff you also learn to be a carpenter or whatever, the basics of it.

Then you have HAVO, this takes 5 years. Just books and studying, for the avg people (for lack of a different term right now). And then there is VWO this is for the smart people and it takes 6 years. It's also just books and stuff. But you learn more then the other levels and the grading is more strict, you can have less questions wrong in a test. Within VWO there are 2 different "levels" Atheneum and Gymnasium, the only difference really is, is that Gymnasium means you get Greek and Latin on top of all the other courses.

After High School, you then also have 3 Levels of further education. People who did VMBO can go to the MBO, which teaches mostly the lower class jobs, carpenters, painters, and the lower part of the office jobs. People from HAVO can go to MBO and HBO. HBO teaches higher jobs, it's more theoretical then MBO but still uses a lot of practical stuff. And people from VWO can go to MBO, HBO and University. No one from VWO goes to a MBO as far as I know though. University is very theoretical and very much aimed towards research.

Now it's also possible to first do a MBO, then go to a HBO and then go to a University, or coming from HAVO taking one year of HBO, taking a test and then getting into University. You can also do HAVO after finishing VMBO. So it's not like you are stuck within a level once you are in it. But the education here is very much aimed at your capabilities.

I hope this was somewhat coherent and understandable, but I think it all goes to the level of our University's. They might not have familiar names, but the education over here is more then good enough and it doesn't really matter which uni you go too.

[Epinephrine]

Galleleo:

And until very recently basically 1/2 of all high ranking business leaders and government officials in Britian went to Oxford or Cambridge. Almost the entire political elite in France also went to one school, Institut d'études politiques de Paris. So I'm not sure what you mean when you say it doesn't matter in Europe what school you go to... maybe in whatever small country you come from it doesn't matter, but then again it probably does and you probably just think it doesn't.

Of course you could be right, because most European schools kind of suck compared to world rankings (with a few exceptions such as Oxford and Cambridge). In many European countries, professors are also civil servents and such they don't pay enough money to professors so the best and brightest go to America and other places that pay more. This is a well known problem within Europe and severely limits the quality of the universities, especially in research.

Certainly going to a top school doesn't automatically get you jobs anywhere even in North America. I have a friend who graduated from Harvard only to work as a waiter at a local restaurant afterwards.

But the fact is, if you were smart enough and motivated enough and even connected enough to get into a top school (yes even Ivy leagues are hard to get into for almost all people) you are probably smart enough, motivated enough and connected enough to make something of yourself in life. And yes, you will probably also recieve a very good education, have contacts with some of the most brilliant professors in the world, and also know lots of other brilliant people who were your classmates which never hurts anywhere.

[Galleleo]

I am not saying going to an Ivy League school makes you brilliant, I am saying it gives an unfair advantage, certainly to those students not overly brilliant but with incredibly rich parents against those students that are not overly brilliant but smarter then the avg who have poor parents.

And from what I understood Business School at Harvard and the technical department from MIT (or some specialisations within that department) are among the top of the world school.

And Oxford and Cambridge are among the best schools in the world looked at the whole package of studies they give. (These last 2 parts are all hearsay though, that's just what I understood from multiple people. I am not claiming it to be facts)