Can the plane take off?

[K2Grey]

My reading of the question is that we are to assume a hypothetical conveyer belt of such nature that an observer standing at a distance will not see the airplane moving horizontally. I.e. the plane is fixed in point. In that case I agree with bioture's references, the plane should not move given my understanding of things (which is fairly limited) because the engines do not provide sufficient thrust.

Now I checked Aquatiq's links and there seems to be a considerable amount of debate there, too. From what I see, the people who say the plane takes off also say that the plane will move horizontally (or in the x-y plane, if that's easier to understand). They are taking the statement literally and proposing the usage of a kind of conveyer belt which can somehow measure the speed of the plane's wheels, until the point at which either friction melts everything or else fails for some reason to retard the motion of the plane. I think it is better to assume the magic conveyer belt which stops the plane dead in its tracks, since that's what the question seems to be asking.

[Peace_Maker]

The simple answer is no the aircraft will not take off.

Everyone that has said the plane will take off has stated the wheels will turn faster to make the forward movement. The conveyor belt is going to speed up as the wheels speed up. Therefore, while the plane is moving increasingly faster until the engines reach its max point the aircraft relevant to everything else around it including air is stationary. Engines do not cause lift, they cause the wings to go forward with the rest of the aircraft to cause lift. The aircraft can be moving as fast as it wants but if the conveyor belt can keep up with the speed of the wheels in the opposite direction the aircraft will never take off.

With that being said a stationary aircraft can take off if ground wind is going fast enough and in the right direction. This depends on the type of aircraft of course. I have actually had to repair some of our museum aircraft that were sitting outside and lightly tied down. The aircraft lifted up off the ground and turned hitting a tree. It caused a dent on the leading edge of a wing along with some other minor damage.

[Maurauth]

The conveyor belt matches the speed the wheels spin at. The wheels will keep spinning and won't move anywhere relative. Then the engines are engaged and the wheels turn faster, as does the conveyor belt, but the wheels will also skid forwards; not spinning and therefore the conveyor belt will not match that speed. TAKE OFF!

http://youtube.com/watch?v=kHUnAU0MyHM

[Reaver]

http://thatvideosite.com/video/2882

[Hero*]

laugh, after 3 pages you still didnt get it. the pain. im happy you werent around when the wheel was invented, it would have beed a disaster

yeah it would have really beed a disaster. The only plane that can take off from this position is a harrier jet. Then again why would you believe me, and why would I believe you since the shit you say doesn't make sense. Don't take it so literal. It's a riddle..not a 23 mark question on your physics exam!!

[Fluffz]

not that this has any relation to this riddle, but you seem to lack some background knowledge:

[AnidaLife]

It you still think the plane cannot take off, then consider the 2 plane case, where one plane is pulling on the second plane on the conveyor belt.

2 planes attached head to tail with a rigid rod. The first plane is on the ground and the second one is on the conveyor belt. The first one starts moving forward, which acts as propulsion for the second plane. The second plane WILL move forward no matter what the conveyor belt is doing. Therefore, the relative speed to the ground is greater than zero, and the plane WILL TAKE OFF

[Hero*]

yeah but thats with a plane helping another plane.

[D1st0rt]

Christ I need to think through stuff before I post it. I was going off of the free body diagram I had made which is conveniently independent of whatever the runway surface is, so obviously that should have thrown up a red flag since planes actually do take off irl :/

I don't normally suck at life this much so I'm just gonna stop posting in this thread before I make myself look like more of an idiot, Ewan and FoR have it under control

[Ewan]

yeah but thats with a plane helping another plane.

The plane pulling is analogous to an engine. It's the same sort of force.

[Hero*]

The plane pulling is analogous to an engine. It's the same sort of force.

riiiiight..but you see..its another plane..on concrete..pulling a plane on a treadmill...not an engine. stick to the riddle.

[Saturn V]

riiiiight..but you see..its another plane..on concrete..pulling a plane on a treadmill...not an engine. stick to the riddle.

You're an idiot.*

*Yeah, that's probably harsh, but I'm tired of this thread.

[AnidaLife]

Hero, what if it's a type of plane that takes off SOLELY from being pulled by another plane? It works the exact same way as the normal propulsion. The force acted on the plane from its engines can be exactly the same as the force from the puller plane.

[Hero*]

I don't get it. But my uncle/dad seems to agree with me. (uncle is the retired airbus pilot)

[Ewan]

Ewan and FoR have it under control

University of Southampton

Aerospace Engineering (Masters)

California Polytechnic State University
Aerospace Engineering (Bachelors)