University of Florida Police Brutality

[SEAL]

Appearantly there is a regulation, and he violated that. I'm pretty sure they were all told what to ask and what not. He's breaking those rules and continues this violation while being escorted.



Using this video as reference: http://youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE

My observation is that I see a man acting inpredictable in front of a VIP. That's how VIP get hurt.

See second 23 to 30. I would say they're being gently. He cuts himself lose and they allow him. Let's call that strike 2. (Try doing that to a bouncer in a club. 2 minutes later you're running to the hospital with your teeth in your hands).

Then at second 52, he becomes uncontrolable. He cuts himself lose from the police and makes a move back to the VIP.

Once he's down, he continues acting wild. uhmmm????? That's like picking up the soap in a jail shower. You're asking for it.

Remember that they have to judge in mather of seconds, unlike us who sit behind a computer and taking all the time for it.

[Vykromond]

don't tase me bro

[genocidal]

I'm going to ignore the Euro posts A) because they're illogical B) because Euros are used to being sheep to their governments and C) because they're Euro.

Anyways, bottom line is a cop tells you to do something, you have to do it.

Uh no you don't. Is this what people are taught in school? Unless you're being detained you don't have to even speak to an officer, much less let him touch you. It's still assault even with a badge if it's unjustified. Being a cop doesn't give you a free pass to fuck with people, despite what some cops think.

This dumbass didn't, and he learned that hard way that it doesn't pay to be a douchebag. But, straight up, this isn't brutality.

How is it not brutality? He was pinned down and CLEARLY not a threat to any of the officers or anyone else. Had he had a gun I think they would have figured it out in the course of manhandling him.

Here is a rule from University of Florida Police Department protocol: use of taser is justified at a threat level of 4 and above where threat level 1 is intimidating body language and level 6 is attempts to kill or badly hurt an officer. I don't think being pinned on the ground by 4 officers constitutes a threat level of 4. But just in case, let's dig deeper!

Florida law states, "A person is justified in using force, expect deadly force, against another when and to the extend that the person reasonably believes that such conduct is necessary to defend himself or herself or another against the other's imminent use of unlawful force" (Title XLVI, 776.012).

Okay, so which of the four officers on top of him felt the need to defend themselves? Where was his imminent use of unlawful force? His flailing hands. I would flail too if a bunch of cops had their dirty hands all over me. Hell, look at the end of the video. ONE cop carried him out. Not four, one. So why did he need to be tasered when four were on top of him?

Rodney King was fucking brutality, but this shit doesn't even come close to it. And if the officers are suspended (I'm sure with pay) pending an investigation, I can almost guaran-damn-tee that the officers will be cleared with justifiable use of non-lethal force.

It doesn't have to be the level of Rodney King to be brutality. Many people have died from taser usage - it's not something to play around with and go trigger-happy on. The officers I'm sure will be released from the University at least because this is a huge black eye.

I'm sorry to rain on everyone's parade here, again, but you guys are right. If we lived in this ideal society this shouldn't happen. But, guess what? Life sucks, wear a fucking helmet. You don't do stupid shit like that with police and not expect to get your ass beat. Simple as that.

It's shit like this that scares me. I've been shot with a taser gun, I fucking know how serious it is. Not only can it kill you but it hurts like fuck and I, for one, don't want officers using their obviously poor discretion at when to use it. They clearly broke protocol (see above) and should be punished.

It fucking appalls me how nonchalant phatass, Dameon, and stark are about this. I figured the free speech and arrest (he was never put under arrest before being tased) would be the only controversial things but not the fucking excessive force.

[Bioture]

my two cents

I don't really care whether or not the guy gets arrested or roughed up or whatever. Campus cops can be the biggest pricks ever, so I'm not surprised. What I do think is that something needs to be done for the liberal tazing that occurred. He definitely needs to sue someone.

[Zerzera]

I'm going to ignore the Euro posts.

You sound like a fucking sheep of a European with your protocol bullshit. The guy acted like a moron and in my book they should have undressed him -to humiliate him- , shave him, put a big mark on his body and deport him to some camp. That will teach him for stepping out of line like that and asking questions is never a good thing in my opinion.

[Ephemeral]

Were there rules about being allowed to speak at this event?
If so, was he following them?
When asked to stop speaking, was it followed?
While being physically removed, was it reasonably to expect that additional force might be used?

Free speech needs to have context and coomon sense. For example, exercising free speech from the back of a court room can get you thrown in jail. Or go into a biker bar and start yelling how guys who ride bikes are pussies. A tase would be the least of your worries.

And since many already think the these type authorities already are assholes, why would someone think that they wouldn't get the short end of the stick in this situation?

[404 Not Found]

The officers also deserve a good helping of criticism in this case, even though they were justified. First and foremost, you are ALWAYS suppose to start with a verbal command. They didn’t do that here, they simply grabbed the kid before even telling him what they were doing.

There were two officers who, for a few seconds got physical control over the student. But then this little punk kid was able to get free.

He gets free and a third officer, instead of helping to cuff the kid, pulls out his taser and aims it at the kid. But this was a bad move. As you can see in the video, other officers actually get into the line of fire of the taser. That’s a no-no, you don’t aim a weapon like that when other officers are in the line of fire.

Then a forth officer joins in, and the 4 officers try to escort him out without having any physical control over the subject whatsoever. This is crazy. I mean what the hell were they thinking? Then the kid actually gets free from 4 police officers!

He gets free and then they finally get him on the ground. He has 3-4 officers on his back, another holding his legs and another trying to talk to him, telling him to stop resisting and giving verbal commands. Even though there is about 5 cops on this kid, they can’t get handcuffs on him! The punk kid even gets his arms free as they try to cuff him!

At this point, I’m thinking, what the hell is going on? How is it that 5 cops can’t subdue one scrawny little college brat without a taser shot?

This should not have ended in the kid being shot with a damn taser. This is a case of cops that either have bad training or are just lazy-asses. I suspect the fact that they were university police and not street cops had something to do with it.

I know this is after-the-fact analysis, but come on. 5 cops can’t take down one kid without shooting him with a taser first? That’s just lame.

I think the most shocking thing about the video is how big of a brat this student is. Any idiot with any sense in their brain knows that when a police officer takes you into custody, game over.

This kid would have had a great first amendment civil suit against the University–the cops had no justification to arrest him. I say, “take the cuffs and sue later.” The government HATES a first amendment fight in front of a jury, because unlike almost any other kind of case, they usually lose.

But screaming like a brat and resisting arrest doesn’t work. It usually ends with a zap!

[genocidal]

Like I said, I won't even bother with Euro comments. Thanks for proving my point, Zerz.

Were there rules about being allowed to speak at this event?

It was a question/answer period. He was asking Senator Kerry a question that he had waited in line to ask (which Kerry actually continued to respond to even after the scuffle). Personally, I wanted to know the answer to his questions.

If so, was he following them?

Debatable. The one rule he broke was using profanity - he said "blowjob." BUT, the reason you don't hear it on the video is because he said he at the beginning of his question. He was allowed to continue speaking until he looked unruly (I guess?) to either Accent (the people holding the event) or the actual officers. Details on this are sketchy but what Accent is saying is that they cut his mic because he said "blowjob," despite waiting at least 3 or 4 minutes for him to finish his question before responding to that (which makes it suspect).

I'm a senior at the University of Florida and I've been to about 25-30 of these events and they usually end with a question/answer period. I've seen peoples' microphones cut off many times, and I've seen many impassioned questioners (far more than this guy) but I have never seen the police so much as talk to a student - much less lay a hand on him. This was unprecedented for the university and for Senator Kerrry (he was quoted as saying this afterward). The Senator, in fact, pleaded with the officers to leave him alone because he was answering his question.

When asked to stop speaking, was it followed?

He wasn't asked to stop speaking, his microphone was cut off. Generally (and like I said I have a lot of experience seeing this happen) people just walk away when that happens. In this case he kept talking (and yes I've seen that before) and demanding to know why his mic was cut. The police did NOT ask him to stop talking they simply grabbed him, which in any normal human being has a very visceral reaction (space people probably don't count because most of you are huge pussies as evidenced by some of your responses like, "lol do wut copz say OR ELZ").

So in short, he was kind of asked to stop speaking (mic cut) and no, it wasn't followed (he got pissed off, legitimately) - but it's clearly much more complicated than that. It's not like he was shouting endlessly or something.

While being physically removed, was it reasonably to expect that additional force might be used?

Not at all. Like I said before, I've seen this happen many times and never have I seen police get involved - especially physically. But, there are always officers standing by.

Free speech needs to have context and coomon sense. For example, exercising free speech from the back of a court room can get you thrown in jail. Or go into a biker bar and start yelling how guys who ride bikes are pussies. A tase would be the least of your worries.

Well there is nothing wrong with going to a biker bar and saying that; it just doesn't seem very wise. Courtrooms are different because there is a degree of respect that must be adhered to by law (you can be prosecuted for contempt of court). You can't be prosecuted for contempt of Kerry.

And since many already think the these type authorities already are assholes, why would someone think that they wouldn't get the short end of the stick in this situation?

Irrelevant. Everyone who says, "You should expect police to beat or harm you" is missing the point. Why should you expect it? It's not legal.

[Money]

i expect many euro opinions on this matter

haha gen, only smart thing to do would be to ignore them gj

[Kim]

When the guy resisted arrest, the police knew that they had to take him down. The police had to hold him down somewhat in order to administer the taser, because as observed from his behaviour, it would be a danger to the other police officers as well.

That being said...I believe the taser should only be used if the suspect on hand was armed, because the taser is pretty much like a handgun, without the high fatality rates. However, that could be subjective as well, because what if they were a martial artist trained in close combat with the capacity to kill.

[genocidal]

Tell me when you hear the officers say, "Sir, you're under arrest for x" (and yes phat, they are required to tell you what you're under arrest for when they detain you, not at the station). They don't, they just put their grubby hands on him. How the fuck can you resist arrest when you aren't under arrest?

Also Kim, there is something called judgment that most humans are assumed to have. He wasn't a threat when 4 officers were on top of him and 2 or 3 more were standing right there. I don't care if you're Jackie goddamn Chan - if you're 170 pounds and 4 fatasses are on you then you aren't going any where.

Read my fat post where I cite the actual laws on taser usage.

[Facetious]

Gen pretty much said everything I was going to say, only he thought it out more and said it more effectively than I was going to. It seems to me that this guy was trying to cause a scene, but it's no excuse for the behavior. The fact that these campus police didn't have the presence of mind to go through any of the normal protocol for arresting someone is bad enough. The fact that they tasered him is worse. The fact that they did both of those things while they were being videotaped is frightening. Clearly, they had no knowledge of what they were supposed to do in this situation and thought they were doing the right thing. We saw it at Virginia Tech, and we're seeing it here, campus police should not have any authority to do anything, and certainly should not have any sort of weapons. When you do nothing but boost your ego by fucking with casual drug users and drunks all day, you lose your ability to deal with real (or at least sober) threats apparently.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

I have to disagree with you fundamentally, freedom of speech should never be undermined just because we live in a 'structured' and 'civilised' society. It's a right we've gained (as western cultures) through political progress, democracy and constitutions. It's a right so many people lack and a right so many people fight for. Do not take it for granted, it's a luxury.

I don't take it for granted. But there ARE limits to "free speech" in any modern society. There HAVE to be. You're kidding yourself if you think societies work when absolutely anything goes.

You also infer that just because people have the ability to say what they want, they necessarily will. People don't always exercise their civil rights to the maximum all the time, that's absurd. It's like saying that freedom of religion would necessarily mean everyone would be religious. You entertain the somewhat simplistic idea that unless something is legally implemented the opposite will definitely occur: it won't.

I don't think that everyone would, and didn't say that. But it only takes one shithead to spoil it for everyone. And yes, there ARE those people out there who spout things that fly in the face of all reason. What you're talking about is an ideal world in which you don't have people who say shit just to get people riled up. Reality check: those people DO exist. There's probably more of them than you'd like to believe. Shit, there's at least two of them on these message boards alone.

The reason that I get so pissed about it is like I said before--I feel that dumb people ruin true and total free speech for the rest of us.

Edit - Also, I agree with Face that campus police should not be armed.

[Tone]

Yesterday at a John Kerry forum a student was asking a question about Kerry's involvement in the Skull and Bones. His mic was cut due to profanity (allegedly) and he began shouting out. The cops all grabbed him and were pulling him out. The rest you can see for yourself in the video here. He was tasered for about 7 seconds.

We had a bunch of student protests today on brutality etc. Pretty fucked up.

Kerry has since "condemned" what happen in that video

and it is true that kerry won the 2004 election, the vote fraud is proven. look at exit polls VS actual results, they match in paper ballot only states but have huge differences in machine diebold states...you even have the data control of paper-ballot only states/ plus all the other scandals that went on like denying blacks votes.

and it is true that bush and kerry are both members of scull and bones, and that secret society did infact produce a disproportionate number of Congressmen, presidents, big CEOs, and powerful people, for being a society that admits only 15 members per year in a country of 300 million people

this is serious enough to break no law by asking a few questions for a few moments.

Scull and Bones is a death cult where its members masturbate in coffins and become indoctrinated to be ultimately loyal to each other and their agenda. e.g. kerry must be the 2004 nominee, and he must not challenge the election results with bush, fellow bonesman - they must stage it to look like he tried a little then he gives up, because Bush was to be prez.

[Scoop]

Kerry has since "condemned" what happen in that video

and it is true that kerry won the 2004 election, the vote fraud is proven. look at exit polls VS actual results, they match in paper ballot only states but have huge differences in machine diebold states...you even have the data control of paper-ballot only states/ plus all the other scandals that went on like denying blacks votes.

and it is true that bush and kerry are both members of scull and bones, and that secret society did infact produce a disproportionate number of Congressmen, presidents, big CEOs, and powerful people, for being a society that admits only 15 members per year in a country of 300 million people

this is serious enough to break no law by asking a few questions for a few moments.

Scull and Bones is a death cult where its members masturbate in coffins and become indoctrinated to be ultimately loyal to each other and their agenda. e.g. kerry must be the 2004 nominee, and he must not challenge the election results with bush, fellow bonesman - they must stage it to look like he tried a little then he gives up, because Bush was to be prez.

Tone make a thread with a shitload of info on the skull and bones please. Id love to read it.:wub: