Doubling the size of everything in the universe

[Bioture]

I just got done arguing this with a friend over AIM... but here's the argument (and I have no idea how this started, and why it lasted 4 hours - it's 6am here approximately)

The argument is that you can hypothetically double everything in the universe and everything would stay the same. Atoms, gravities, etc. Everything would be doubled to scale. Would this action doom the universe or would everything be the same, simply twice in size? We're assuming that everything in terms of density and mass is increase proportionally to the weight.

sorry just wanted your thoughts on this. it's pretty late here and what I wrote might become delirious banter when I read it in the morning.

[Singularity]

I'm pretty sure not everything stays the same. Things such as the total energy of a system,gravity and inertia do not stay the same. Put enough matter next to each other with a sun and sooner or later it will all end up sucked to the core creating a more dense mass, which has completely different properties. (black hole anyone?)

Edit: I thought you meant doubling the size by doubling the amounts of particles. If you double really everything, probably nothing much would happen no, but then again, our understanding of physics basically stops at atomic level.

[Noah]

If absolutley everything, down to the mechanics and atoms that make out the universe were doubled in size/capacity/distance/etc, then nothing would have happened. The ratios with everything would be the same either way, and since everything affecting ratios like capacity and distance were doubled in the same way, it wouldn't have made a difference.

It's an interesting argument, and something I could easily see someone going back and forth on for hours.

[Pressure Drop]

no

universe ends


i haven't thought about this


but if you are just doubling everything then laws of physics like gravitational forces and electromagnetic fields are not linear with distance

so if you've doubled the charge and size of an electron and put it 2 times the distance then the resultant force is not the same

i.e. from a point source electric field force is influenced by charge over radius squared

so if you double the charge and double the radius the force has halfed

[hak]

I'll have two of those please

An interesting topic.

Say you double everything, everything would have twice the molecules? So every molecule has twice the amount and type of atoms. So the atoms have twice the amount and types of core particles. Take 2-Hydrogen as an example. It has 1 proton, 1 neutron and 1 electron. Say you double the amount of protons. You then no longer have Hydrogen, but you get Helium. In this way Hydrogen will cease to exist when you double everything. Fatal consequences result from this.

I'm not sure if that is what you mean, but that's what I understood from it.

Regards,

Hakkinen B)

[Liquid Blue]

the already fat hamburger americans would double in size and therefor sink the north american continent, taking canada and mexico with us.


take that, bitches B)

[Bioture]

An interesting topic.

Say you double everything, everything would have twice the molecules? Fatal consequences result from this.

I'm not sure if that is what you mean, but that's what I understood from it.

Regards,

Hakkinen B)

No, we would double the physical size of the atoms, therefore doubling the size of the molecules and not simply having twice as much molecules. At a purely quantum level would doubling the size of an atom (pure physical size, not number) mean double the size of the universe, without anything bad happening?

I keep getting the image in my head of those chemistry kits that students play with that allows you to make molecules using plastic balls - just doube the size of the balls, and afterwards would the atoms still bond with each other?

[D1st0rt]

It wouldn't work because as Pressure Drop said, there are relationships that exist in nature that aren't linear. Even in simple things you can see polynomial, exponential, and logarithmic proportionalities.

[Jerome Scuggs]

baader-meinhof!

[geekbot]

Twice as many crappy threads and twice as much spam in my inbox...? Damn.

[Saturn V]

Would fail.

Now go apologize to your friend.

[D1st0rt]

Twice as many crappy threads and twice as much spam in my inbox...? Damn.

but your inbox would be twice as large

[Dameon Angell]

The positions wouldn't change, only the size. Earth would burn up.

[Pressure Drop]

No, we would double the physical size of the atoms, therefore doubling the size of the molecules and not simply having twice as much molecules. At a purely quantum level would doubling the size of an atom (pure physical size, not number) mean double the size of the universe, without anything bad happening?

I keep getting the image in my head of those chemistry kits that students play with that allows you to make molecules using plastic balls - just doube the size of the balls, and afterwards would the atoms still bond with each other?

those are just for theory and modelling , the actual atoms they represent aren't big balls like that, but for the purpose of the models can taken to be so.

most of what an atom actually is is empty space.

i haven't done alot of chemistry but from what i understand with bonding in ionic charged molecules bond and covalent they share electrons

the electrons are strange but exist in shells around the electron, the higher the level of the shell the more energy the electron has and the looser it is bound to the nucleus of the atom.

All that is represented by the big ball

if you where to double it's size this would be mostly increasing the distance between the particles which would affect all that

from what i understand of particle physics which of course is very little compared to a physicist

in short the atoms are little tiny "solar systems" made up with the nucleus like a sun where virtually all the mass of the atom is, and it's made up of protons and neutrons which are both made from 3 quarks each, then the electrons would be like planets orbiting that but instead of gravity providing the attraction it's the protons charge and the electrons charge. (this is a simplified analogy) So it's all held in balance by forces that repel and attract them , they intern can bound with other atoms with relativity vast amounts of empty space between them.

"doubling the size of an atom" doesn't make a whole lot of sense in my head

but its good to think like those thoughts and even particle physicists don't agree on the subatomic world

[Jeenyuss]

black people would be mocha