Building a Wall Between US and Mexico

[MirrorriM]

I've seen a lot of heavy political debates about various topics on these forums, so I hope you guys can help me out with this one. Basically, I'm doing a research paper on the various arguments for and against building a wall between Mexico and the United States. I have the articles and the research, now I need some public opinion.

If you have an opinion or belief about this subject, please include it here! It would also be helpful if you could discuss topics other than just political reasons--such as economic, social, and environmental topics.

[TopGod]

They Took Our Jobs

[TopGod]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HKd6kSDcaYQ

Full episode:
http://www.southparkstudios.com/episodes/103883/

[Bioture]

it's the Great Wall of Freedom!

[Box]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMSbZNLCNuI

[Squeezer]

why is summa here?

getouttamyhead!

[SpaceHiker]

They Took Our Jobs

"They" didn't take our jobs. NAFTA did. People laughed at Ross Perot for his "giant sucking sound" quote, but they don't laugh about it anymore.

Regarding the wall, here's an analogy for you:
Every 5 to 10 years the Army Corp Of Engineers tries to push approval through to build a dam across the Red River in Kentucky, forming a huge lake. The only problem is, no one ever decided that they wanted a lake there. But it would be a great way for the Corp to justify their budget, so they try again every so often to get a dam approved, even though not one single person anywhere wants to build a lake there. They don't want a lake for flood control, or recreation, or any reason whatsoever. But the local residents of the area can never rest because the Corp will keep trying to build that dam anyway and they have to keep stopping it.

If you're going to build a wall between the US and Mexico, someone would have to actually want the thing. In this case "someone" is the federal government, because they control immigration law and they oversee enforcement. The problem is, the federal government has not been able to come to a decision as to what their policy is, and they have been trying to come up with a policy for decades. If I were to outline it, it would look like this:

Step 1: Determine Policy... Do we want:
1. All Hispanics to enter the US.
2. Some Hispanics.
3. No Hispanics.
4. Just the ones that are already here.
5. Just the ones that have children in the US.
6. Only ones with work visas.

Step 2: Formulate a plan to enforce the policy:
Build a Wall.
Beef up border patrol.
Remove border patrol.
Helicopter patrols.
Improve documentation.
Amnesty.

So you see, by discussing a wall, we are jumping to Step 2 without answering Step 1. That is the problem. Immigration law is a disaster in the US, and the fed is happy to keep it that way right now rather than deal with it and possibly screw things up badly in the process.

If the current immigration law were to be 100% enforced, it would be disastrous to our economy and to business in general. Everyone knows that we need far more immigrant workers than our current system allows for, but the fed can't come to a decision as to how to fix it, and they are afraid to try. That's why a wall will not be built, and probably not much else will be done, either.

[Vykromond]

>economic

Illegal immigration is the lifeblood of a sizable sector of the American economy. Contrary to what Lou Dobbs "thinks" (does the man even think?), closing the borders to immigration and trade would hurt, not help, the economy

>social

The social ills of Hispanic immigrants are greatly exaggerated. Although there are certainly enclaves of first-generation immigrants who integrate little if at all into the US culture, the fact is that the vast, vast majority of today's immigrants who stay in the country and have kids learn English and are completely integrated by the 2nd or 3rd generation. Most complaint in this department is basically thinly-veiled racism.

>environmental

I know nothing about this whatsoever.

[Fit of Rage]

No more immigrants. There are enough American assholes on the road as it is.

[Summa]

whats the point other than a gigantic financial black hole?

sure it will reduce numbers of illegals entering our country, it will probably increase their deaths too. the problem is the corporations and their profit seeking. if people cant pay under the table for less then they will go elsewhere. america has too much human rights laws in place, it is not the prime place for profit seeking corporations to set up the base of their workforce. so we will end up spending a shit ton of money and losing factories (yay!).

but heres the thing, i believe they will still get across (but reduced). if someone wants something and is motivated to get it, they will go to any means to get it (even over or around a big ass wall). money and helping their families are the biggest motivators out there (aside from survival which could be considered a motivator in some cases). they will get across, humans and life always find a way over usually metaphorical but this time literal walls that impede their paths.


so basically the problem lies in u.s. immigration policy and the 2 party system having one party ruin any attempt at actually establishing a policy, the fact that if the wall is established and we are forced to use american workers that corporations will just continue to outsource and screw us out of the majority of the jobs that we are supposed to gain, and that regardless of a wall or not they will find a way across but maybe in fewer numbers.

[HateTheFake]

ok where to start, living in Arizona we had lots of illegals.

1-who would build this wall ???

2- When that political march happened last year and all hispanics were boycotting shopping, sales decreased 10 percent, theft was down 62 percent.

3- Having a illegal workforce, drives down wages for everyone else. People say that noone wants those jobs, but tell that to the people who work them. Has anyone seen Dirty Jobs With Mike Rowe, Most of the jobs he does are like this.

4- Crime increases drastically with illegals. If they hit someone while driving will they stay and wait for the cops to deport them?

5- The only negative i see, is there will longer be a mechanic to help with my car for a 6 pack, or help paint or do some landscaping

[RednaZ]

The Great Wall (China) - failed
The Berlin Wall - Torn down
Israeli West Bank barrier - In a 2004 decision, the International Court of Justice declared construction of the wall "contrary to international law."

Why even go there...

[Dabram]

1-who would build this wall ???

Illegal immigrants, duh.

[Kontrolz]

Yea, looking at walls that were used to separate countries/territories over the past... forever, I'd say it doesn't stand a snowball's chance in hell. Like space_hiker said, it's been completely obvious since day 1 that this was just a another military contract.

[Izor]

It wouldnt really even keep illegals out theyd just find other ways to get in. Would waste money. If we could actually deport the ones that we find here it would be a good start in my mind.