Building a Wall Between US and Mexico

[Noah]

I'm going to do pretend I never saw this thread, stuff like this just makes me lose more faith in USA. Many of the cool Americans I know doesn't deserve this.

[Mantra-Slider]

rofl cant stop laughing. this is too awesome.

[hak]

Undocumented immigrants in the United States do not take away jobs from US citizens

They Took Our Jobs

Have you ever stopped to think how much you would do for your family? You should think about what immigrants do for their family. Immigrants cross the border everyday. Americans think that they just "walk over", it’s "no big deal." You never hear the real story, you never hear how they are treated. Once they actually get across, they get to live like they deserve, lavishly, right? That's far from the truth. They cross the border and get low-paying jobs (sometimes just 2 dollars an hour) and that's still better than what they would receive in their homeland. Some Americans say that Immigrants are taking away jobs. What American would be willing to work for 2 dollars an hour as a janitor or maid? Not many. Many Americans say: "Immigrants come in the US, take away jobs from "us" and then live on welfare." Americans need to look at the whole picture rather than one part of it or what the media tells us. Immigrants are not taking away jobs from Americans.

Desperate to find better employment opportunities, migrants are continually losing their lives by crossing the Mexico border. In the ‘Diary of the Undocumented Immigrant’, is explained what Mexicans have to go through in order to cross the American-Mexican border. Having to trust smugglers, paying them hundreds of dollars just to get them across the border and there's no guarantee that they will actually make it across. Martin (author of the Diary of the Undocumented Immigrants) explains the condition of the place they had to stay in, "The house in which we take refuge is built in the rear of a house of concrete. It has four rooms, but in the two of them, part of the brick walls have fallen down. The roof is asphalt sheeting. There are badly rusted beds in each of the two better rooms. Their mattresses are filthy and stained and their coverings are torn...." He also states that twenty-four people had to stay in that house. And, he also explains what happens while crossing the river, "The River is swollen and its swift current makes a sound like that of a coming storm. The water is dirty and thick and stained gray, like the color of dirt on the riverbank. Pieces of wook and branches flost on it's surface." Martin and the other immigrants make it safely across but that's not always the case. Often, USA newspaper headlines read something similar to: "Mexico captures 12 suspects linked to deadly migrant smuggling." Apparently, illegal migrants were killed due to the heat after being locked inside an 18-wheeler's airless trailer. You can find statistics that state hundreds of illegal migrants that die a year. They never have a chance to get a job or return to their family.

Contrary to what Americans believe, immigrants are not taking jobs away from Americans. When you look at shops or restaurants in California, Texas, or New York, who do you notice who are running most of those shops and restaurants? Immigrants, whether they're Mexican, Asian, or natives. Instead of taking away jobs, they create jobs by opening businesses. They spend their income on American goods, and pay taxes; this increases the productivity of the U.S. economy. Immigrants aren't taking away jobs from Americans because they're still thousands of jobs out in the business world. Most of the jobs that immigrants take are either low-paying jobs (which Americans rarely agree to do) or shops, restaurants that they start themselves. So where's the loss in jobs that effects the U.S. economy so badly?

I have the idea that immigrants can't "take away" jobs unless they are offered them. One can not just "take" a job that looks appealing. If we could, we would all be rich and happy. That's not the way it works though. I agree that immigrants are more favourable for hiring because they will work for a lower wage; none the less they are offered the job. If Americans were eager enough, they could find the same jobs. Depends on what one is willing to do to "make a buck." As I said before, migrants cross the border to get not even minimum wage and it's still better then what they would get in their homeland. Americans could get the same jobs as the immigrants; they just have to want it bad enough, alike the immigrants.

Good luck on your project.

Regards,

Hakkinen B)

[Singularity]

The way it is going mexico might starting building the wall in a couple of years to keep the americans out.

[Kolar]

Space_Hiker is right about the policy issue. The Right is fractured between their "white, hard working, decent American" base (god I love that quote) and the economically conservative base, otherwise big business interests. Since any Republican president, present and future, will always be in their pocket the situation will never change. They don't know what they want to do much less what the right thing to do is.

You do have a right to a secure boarder but if your economy relies heavily on a poor below the line under class, trying to create a system that greatly limits their ability to enter your country is going to only hurt the barely below the line American family. Everything is setup on a house of cards that assumes the farmers will have the cheap illegal labor and it extends to other sectors, it will have a trickle down effect if any policy severely limits their entry. If you decide to come down harshly on these people and thus the entire system there's no other solution other than to bite the bullet, I think we'll all be learning that very soon with the fuel crisis.

Once these people do get in I believe the onus is on them to integrate and provide for themselves and their community. It has to start at that level, there has to be a want to integrate, to prosper. These people do after all come here for their small piece of the pie, not exactly seeking any kind of American dream we know of. The culture and environment they are entering also has to be accepting but being in a heavily immigrated area of the world (Toronto) I think I can say there's only so much you can do.

[RATTY...]

IMPERIALIST PIGS! Mexicans are people too!

I'm surprised that some people even take this seriously, I clicked on the thread thinking it was a joke/funny thread.

[Cops]

this thread hasn't hit its peek just yet, it can get a lot worse.

[Nycle]

Instead of wasting resources to try and strengthen the border between the US and Mexico, one should consider investing in solutions to the problems that structurally cause some Mexicans to try and immigrate in the first place.

Instead of the US isolating itself more and more from its neighboors, it should try and seek greater integration with them through the political influence it can exert. Through that way it can accomplish the institutionalization of democratic rule, economic reforms, and contained political corruption.

The European Union was in a similar situation in the 80's. Many wondered why a group of well-established wealthy democracies would admit a group of poor, disorganised countries that were torn by dictatorial rule that had left them with sloppy economies and a bloated and inefficient bureaucracy (Spain and Portugal). "Let them in and Northern Europe will be flooded with immigrants taking our jobs and seeking better lives for themselves at the cost of us", some thought.

The opposite turned out to be true. Under pressure from the northern political influence, the mandatory economic and political reforms they had to implement before they could be admitted caused the living standards to rise heavily. They increased up to the point where there would be no need to immigrate once they were admitted to the single market in which persons, goods, services and capital must be allowed to flow without hindrance.

Sort of the same thing happened with the recent admission of the former European communist countries. Instead of leaving them isolated, integrating them has at the same time helped to rise living standards in those countries and has given us access to a larger consumer market, relatively high skilled cheap labor, nice retirement options, and above all, a more stable and peaceful continent. Sure it's true that I suddenly see a lot more Polish license plates driving around these days than before, but they aren't bothering anyone and are probably only helping to fill the labour shortage gap that currently exists in mine and other countries, thus keeping the economy healthy.

The fact that the growing suspicion of the US towards one of its closest allies, Mexico, and perhaps Canada too, is leading to the possible further fortification of its borders is inconceivable to me. In Europe one can nowadays drive from Sweden to Poland to Greece without a passport or border checks. The cultural differences between those countries way bigger than those found between the US and Mexico, not even speaking of Canada which is culturally practically identical to the US in my experience.

My point: In the era of globalization you can't afford to further isolate yourself anymore, in the end you will only get yourself with it.

[Noah]

this thread hasn't hit its peek just yet, it can get a lot worse.

This thread doesn't have a peak at all. It can always, always get worse. This is where belief in human spirit goes to die.

[Zerzera]

I think you should build two walls. Two walls is better than one.

[DankNuggets]

if you really want to keep the mexicans out, think about what they're afraid of. Chupacabras! Get boarder patrol to dress up like chupacabras and the mexicans will be so scared, they won't cross the border!

[Cops]

The fact that the growing suspicion of the US towards one of its closest allies, Mexico, and perhaps Canada too, is leading to the possible further fortification of its borders is inconceivable to me. In Europe one can nowadays drive from Sweden to Poland to Greece without a passport or border checks. The cultural differences between those countries way bigger than those found between the US and Mexico, not even speaking of Canada which is culturally practically identical to the US in my experience.

way to put the elbow into the ribs.

I don't think America is too concerned with Canadians stealing American jobs, at least not as much as Mexicans. Not to say that Border patrol and rules and regulations of getting into the states (from Canada) are that great, but at least I haven't heard of any talks to build up walls.

I think Vykromond nailed it when he said the issue is clouded with 'thinly-veiled racism'.

[Izor]

hak is the one making stereotypes here. He's assuming that every immigrant that comes over is working 12 hours a day sun-sat making 2 dollars an hour to send back home to his family. Theres plenty of illegal immigrants that come over here and do nothing but soak up a govt paycheck. Thats where the divide is in how people feel we should treat them. If ALL they did was come over and work for below minimum wage, I dont think anyone would complain about the situation. I know I sure as hell wouldnt. Kolar is right when he says the economy relies on it pretty well. I dont think I could ever be quoted as (seriously) saying to kick them all out. My beef is more with the welfare system if anything. If they're going to come over here illegally they might as well at least have the decency to work for next to nothing :/ Welfare is -2ez-

[Eric is God]

Building a wall would simply be the biggest public works project in United States history. Ironically enough, in order to build the wall as cheaply as possible the government would almost certainly give the contract to a corporation that employs mostly illegal immigrants :grin:

[Cops]

hak is the one making stereotypes here. He's assuming that every immigrant that comes over is working 12 hours a day sun-sat making 2 dollars an hour to send back home to his family. Theres plenty of illegal immigrants that come over here and do nothing but soak up a govt paycheck. Thats where the divide is in how people feel we should treat them. If ALL they did was come over and work for below minimum wage, I dont think anyone would complain about the situation. I know I sure as hell wouldnt. Kolar is right when he says the economy relies on it pretty well. I dont think I could ever be quoted as (seriously) saying to kick them all out. My beef is more with the welfare system if anything. If they're going to come over here illegally they might as well at least have the decency to work for next to nothing :/ Welfare is -2ez-

what's an average welfare check pay per month? Does it depend on the state that you live in? Like if I was to go to New York how much would I get? What about if I headed down south? What does the mid-west pay? I must find out more about this system and how it is abusable,

thank you kind sir, your input is greatly appreciated.