building a pc

[Fit of Rage]

Hi.

So I'm an aerospace engineering student and you guessed it, my laptop really doesn't cut it for most engineering applications (SolidWorks, Fluent, intensive MATLAB code, etc). So this summer I decided to build my own PC. Basically, what I have in mind is something that can handle graphics pretty smoothly and be able to do a shitload of calculations. 3D-rendering is a plus but I'm not doing video-editing per se, just a shitload of calculating and some 3D modeling.

Of course I want to do it as cheaply as possible, but I need some of the best bang-for-the-buck recommendations for the following:

dual-core processor (athlon or duo-core?)
4GB ram
motherboard (no clue here)
graphics card (again no clue)

Then add on the case, cooling stuff, power supply, hard drive but I think I can figure out most of that stuff myself after I get the above hardware determined. The monitor I was thinking a 19" Hanns G or something like that from Best Buy with a gift card I got for my birthday. Or should I upgrade to a 22" (worth it?).

Since the monitor isn't "really" included, I'd like to build the tower for around $700. Realistic?

Also: XP would be the ideal choice over Vista, since it consumes less memory.

[Fit of Rage]

So I just went to Dell online and came up with this for $703 (+tax, S&H):

My Components
Intel® Pentium® Conroe Dual Core Processor E2200 (1MB, 2.2GHz)
Genuine Windows Vista® Home Basic Service Pack 1
No Monitor
4GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 800MHz- 4DIMMs
250GB Serial ATA Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™
16X DVD+/-RW Drive
ATI Radeon HD 2400 PRO 256MB
Integrated Sound Blaster®Audigy™ HD Software Edition
Dell USB Keyboard and Dell Optical USB Mouse
No Floppy Drive Included
No Modem Option
Internal PCI 802.11g Wireless Network Card
My Software & Accessories
Dell A525 30 Watt 2.1 Stereo Speakers with Subwoofer
McAfee SecurityCenter with anti-virus, anti-spyware, firewall, 36-months
Microsoft Works 9.0
My Service
3Yr In-Home Service, Parts + Labor, 24x7 Phone Support
Included 3 GB DataSafe Online Backup for 1Yr
Also Includes
Mouse included with Keyboard purchase
Adobe® Acrobat® Reader 8.1
Integrated 10/100 Ethernet
Windows Vista™ Basic
No Entertainment software pre-installed

Pros: might meet processing needs and 3 year warranty
Cons: Vista (ugh), and lower-end gfx card

[Sufficient]

http://arstechnica.com/guides/buyer/guide-200805.ars

[Eric is God]

Am I missing something or did you not include a motherboard in there? A decent graphics card should run you at least $200 and that one does seem a little weak. I'd also go with a 500 gig hard drive because you should never need more than that and the extra 250 gigs will probably only cost you $20.

[Cops]

I'd just invest 3-400 in a quad core processor and motherboard and just spend $100 on a hard rive and $50 on a video card as well as $50 on ram.

Once you've got a top of the line processor and motherboard you can just upgrade from there. Then again how much better is the quad core opposed to the core-duo? If it's not that huge of a difference then maybe sticking to a core-duo would be okay.

I think the thing I've learned about computers is that 99 percent of the time the best computer out there is unnecssary, especially for the general public. I can pick up a 200 gig, pr 2.4, 1 GB of ram, etc, etc for under $150, so unless I really needed a top of the line computer I wouldn't shell out more than I needed. I think buying computers is very dependent on the person and price, it's such a fucked up to say once person needs a quad core when the general person would be content with a low end celeron.

[Galleleo]

Shouldn't you just take a ps3 and transform it into a computer? From what I understand the ps3 has more processor shit stuff (however you call that stuff) than it knows what to do with it.

[Izor]

Since I'm about to make my glorious return back to the states soon, ive been looking into a new computer since the one i have cant run a game like crysis well. If you have the money to throw at a computer, the one im going to build will have:

4x2048 MB RAM sticks ~ 400$

Q6700 processor (this one is very reasonably priced)
+
I forget the exact name of the motherboard, but its an nvidia motherboard with 3 PCI-E slots ~ 500$

3x8800 GTS video card ~ 600$

While you probably dont need a top of the line computer, I would still highly suggest 4-8 GB of RAM if your computer is running Vista. Otherwise, if its on XP, the max xp can use is 3 GB so dont bother with a lot of RAM. Vista itself is a resource whore and so far all I've seen it do is fuck up. I've heard that it can be relatively stable though, provided your computer can easily run it. If you're truly building it yourself, then you can put whatever OS you want on there, and Im sure people can link you to very good pirated copies of either. But just because you can put XP on it, doesnt mean that you wont need to be ready to throw Vista on in the future.

[Fit of Rage]

I always heard that XP maxed out at 4GB (for the 32-bit editions), hence 4GB of ram. If it does max out at 3 that's alright too because I can always install linux and do all my heavy processing there. I frankly just didn't want to have to deal with Vista's resource hogging because I don't need my computer to look glossy and pretty. I need it to work hard.

[Noah]

Since I'm about to make my glorious return back to the states soon, ive been looking into a new computer since the one i have cant run a game like crysis well. If you have the money to throw at a computer, the one im going to build will have:

4x2048 MB RAM sticks ~ 400$

Q6700 processor (this one is very reasonably priced)
+
I forget the exact name of the motherboard, but its an nvidia motherboard with 3 PCI-E slots ~ 500$

3x8800 GTS video card ~ 600$

While you probably dont need a top of the line computer, I would still highly suggest 4-8 GB of RAM if your computer is running Vista. Otherwise, if its on XP, the max xp can use is 3 GB so dont bother with a lot of RAM. Vista itself is a resource whore and so far all I've seen it do is fuck up. I've heard that it can be relatively stable though, provided your computer can easily run it. If you're truly building it yourself, then you can put whatever OS you want on there, and Im sure people can link you to very good pirated copies of either. But just because you can put XP on it, doesnt mean that you wont need to be ready to throw Vista on in the future.

Fail.

How can you talk about how much memory he needs for Vista/XP when you don't talk about bits? Both Vista and XP has 32bits as standard, allowing a max 4gb on each OS. It doesn't matter what windows version it is, because they both have the exact same limitations with 32bits. However, you can get a 64bit Windows version for both, that allows you to go past that limit.

I know you're a dumb fuck, so I found you a source to read up on:
http://zone.ni.com/devzone/cda/tut/p/id/5709

For a cheap solution get one Nvidia 8800GT graphics card. The later series doesn't give you much more bang for the buck. I have the 8800GTS card, and I can run everything comfortably. I played Age of Conan with 1680*1050 res, and almost everything at max, and it went smooth enough. The GT card is actually better than the GTS card on some areas, but they are overally equal, and a GT card is almost at half price of a GTS card.

Don't go overboard with quadcore either, it sounds big but it really doesn't matter that much. They did help dumping price on the dualcores though. The Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 looks very cheap, and has good performance.

When it gets to ram, go with something like GeIL DDR2 PC6400 Ultra 2 GB x2. Gives you 4gb ram, and is dirt cheap. Also, they are still some very good chips, having CAS Latency of 4.

Lastly, when it gets to motherboard, just look through that it has the right sockets for the parts you want, and that everything will fit. Also look for what features you want built in, you can get anything you think you'll need on it. Motherboards doesn't do much for performance, they just provide you with the utilities you need.

[Noah]

I always heard that XP maxed out at 4GB (for the 32-bit editions), hence 4GB of ram. If it does max out at 3 that's alright too because I can always install linux and do all my heavy processing there. I frankly just didn't want to have to deal with Vista's resource hogging because I don't need my computer to look glossy and pretty. I need it to work hard.

Vista hogs as much resources as possible to pre-load processes and other useful stuff. As soon as a program asks to some of it, Vista will free up the memory needed. It's better to use something than to just let it sit there waiting for something else to use it.

[Fit of Rage]

Thanks for the suggestions.

Looking entirely at newegg, here's a sample system that I threw together (minus monitor):

Samsung DVD-RW drive
Case
Western Digital 160GB HD
GeForce 8800GT
Turtle Beach 5.1 sound card
430W power supply
Logitech Keyboard and mouse
Corsair 4GB DDR2 SDRAM
GIGABYTE GA-G31M-S2L LGA 775 Intel G31 Micro ATX Intel Motherboard
Intel Core 2 Duo E8400 Wolfdale 3.0 GHz 65W 45nm 6MB L2 cache 1333MHz FSB

Comes to $867.08 after tax, shipping and handling.

[Noah]

You should go with more watts on your power supply. Having the right power supply can add years to the lifetime of your computer. As a general rule, you should have atleast 25% more than you can imagine you'll ever need. I went with Corsair 620W, this is more than 25% of what I need, but having more leftover is still more stable. You can't go wrong with Corsair and that's why you've picked good ram.

In addition I recommend 32bit Vista, and remember to spend some time learning about Vista and how to set up. It doesn't take much work, and overally it's a better OS. Gaming is moving into Vista now, and you have to go through Vista at some point. Now would be a good time to do that.

[Cops]

I'm really not that impressed with vista... but I would like to try age of conan at some point.

[Ewan]

If you get Vista (which I do recommend, I've used it for a year or so now) definitely get Home Premium, not Basic. Also, go for the 64-bit version, it doesn't have the same problems XP 64-bit has and gives the opportunity to use the 4GB of RAM (A 32-bit OS will use about 3.5GB).

And yeah, Vista's "resource hogging" is a feature, it preloads common applications and such, and will free the memory to anything that requests it (Matlab etc) when required.

Also, comewhat coincedentally, I was in your exacxt situation about a year ago (Aerospace Engineer, needed new PC for Solidworks/Matlab etc). I got a Core 2 Duo E6420 with 2GB RAM and a 8800GTS and have been very happy. Obviously these are out of date though, your Newegg one looks good. I'd suggest not getting a sound card though, most Motherboards have decent on-board 5.1 audio so unless you're going all out and getting a snazzy Xfire or something, it just seems pointless.

Regarding the power supply, raw wattage isn't necessarily the best way to tell what you need, but I'd say get a 500W PSU. Also, this is a component you should MAKE SURE you get a decent name brand, cheaper ones tend to put less amps out on the 12V rails (where you want them) and will be a lot less stable. Brands include: Seasonic, Corsair, OCZ, and Fortron.

There is a PC Parts Picking Guide (With a separate, but slightly dated PSU section) here http://shsc.info/PCPartsPickingGuide.


Enjoy.

[Noah]

Just found this new graphic card:

I haven't gotten to do some solid research on this, so I don't know much about this card. Radeon HD 4850 might actually be a better buy than the 8800GT. I suggest that you search for some reviews and benchmarks on this card before you decide. My friend just ordered this card over the 8800GT, he found some pretty convincing reviews and benchmarks.

I just found this review/benchmark:
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/HD_4850/25.html

Look through the different pages, make sure that you look at the fps differences in the games. If I didn't get this wrong it looks like that this card supports Directx 10.1, this is a good feature to pick up along with the full HD support.

Getting the 8800GT is still the safest bet, but if the Radeon card is that much more powerful then it's definitely much more bang for your buck.

I wouldn't know which one to pick without looking through a few more tests, but the Radeon card is interesting enough to stall the decision untill you've found a good amount of info about it.