jerome t. scuggs' weekly politix thread

[Jerome Scuggs]

How can you be in favor of the Second amendment, specifically a vague statement which has little relevance in our time (not looking to debate it, we'll get no where like the thread before and the one before that...) but not so much the Eighth, which specifically deems cruel and unusual punishment illegal. Those dissenting only support such measures because they don't want to appear weak on crime, real law and order types. This wasn't about that. It's about the Constitutional rights of a individual, not a piece of shit child molester but a human being. Does his purposed punishment fit the crime? is it rational and ethically right to kill someone who has not done the same to another person?

Both the second and eighth amendment deal with the rights of individuals. Regardless of how relevant they might be now (see the points about environmentalism), as Kennedy said they should stand for all time.

The Constitution is a very clear document that sets the standards for which it is to be judged. The Constitution's framework is a respect for individual property rights, "self-evident", from which all other rights stem from - free speech, ownership (of guns), et cetera (As a sub-point, this is why I believe government-owned industries and programs are unconstitutional - ethics aside). As I stated earlier, in my eyes the only crime that deserves capital punishment is murder, but that doesn't mean capital punishment should be the result of every murder.

Though you'd definitely have a fun time trying to convince me that child molestation is somehow less cruel or unusual than a good ol' bullet to the head. Child molestation is a really sketch topic for property-rights advocates and its corresponding branch of philosophy, due to so many mitigating circumstances. I don't think that the death penalty should be the first and foremost punishment, but I'm sure there's at least one dude out there who's fondled more than enough children to deserve capital punishment.

edit: as for your edit... while on-face I saw it as a triumph for the 2nd amendment, it does bring about the question of federalism and states' rights. Perhaps Congress can't pass a law banning guns, but does that also include local governments? interesting train of thought...

[Kolar]

I think it would. The Constitution bans Congress from passing any law which would respect an establishment of religion. That has been interpreted to apply to all levels of Government including even School Boards as it happened in the ID debate. So it will have to go down to the wording of it, which is irrelevant to a majority of Americans, politicians and Judges.

Edit: I think there's a lot of people who deserve a far worst fate then either of our justice systems can provide, but as you said the inequality of a few innocent people is not worth it. We have probably killed a fair amount of innocent people but if we lived in a different world where there was absolutely no doubt of guilt for every single suspect then the debate would fall to the next level, is it morally and ethically right to take a life, be it a State or individual making that decision.

[Heroin Bob]

yeah the supreme court really screwed up on the 2nd amendment issue, I agree with Jerome.

The environment is more important.

agreed with supreme court being dousche bags. remember the elites in washington will always know more than them cajuns.


also


if your pro environment, as you say you are, wouldn't you want us doing our drilling instead of people using sub par tech in a forest some where creating multitudes more pollution? or are you just for the environment you can see around you and do not really care about earth but also like to wear those 'go green' shirts....



off note, any one see pelosi going coocoo for fairness doctrine? stupid bitch

[Heroin Bob]

Does his purposed punishment fit the crime? is it rational and ethically right to kill someone who has not done the same to another person?

so your proposing we put him in a violent crimes prison yard in a dress and makeup and allow gang rape from about 20 people?

he left a young girl bloodied and mutilated, and thats just her outward appearance. this guy deserves to die. your a piece of shit

[DankNuggets]

i'm not sure about local gov'ts passing laws to ban guns. I know it's in effect for several states, but how is it necessarily constitutional? Is it because the right to own guns is in the bill of rights and not in the enumerated powers section? Is it because such laws do not ban guns outright, but only certain types? I thought it was the domain of states to make laws on topics not "given" to the federal gov't.

"Well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed." .

Doesn't say who can't infringe i guess. Also doesn't say that ak47's are 'Arms'. we can assume that given the musket ball technology of the day, a weapon completely incapable of causing mass violence, they didn't want to give every idiot an assualt rifle. But who's to say that a handgun isn't a reasonable weapon to use for defense/militia purposes? and they're illegal in NY aren't they?

[DankNuggets]

and capital punishment - i can't say too much on recent (within past 7 yrs) changes to policy, but i wrote like a 20 pg paper on the topic back in school (bet everyone did).

There's two ways to be charged for a capital crime: by the federal gov't, or by the states themseleves. Certain states have chosen to forego the death penalty, but any criminal could be charged for a federal capital crime, regardless of where they lived in the US. Most states have chosen to end capital punisment because too many death row inmates were exonerated by DNA evidence. Other states continue to use the penalty because they say they can now be even more sure because of DNA testing.

To make a crime a capital crime, you basically have to kill someone. There are other ways to get the death penalty, but they are remnents of older legislation that isn't used today (with maybe the exception of treason as applied to terrorism). Federally you have to commit murder 1 to get it I believe, whereas states allow it based on qualifying for say 2 out of 7 aggrevations to the crime. These could be kidnapping, rape, kidnapping with a weapon or accross state lines, and a number of other things. But in all of those cases, the victim must have been killed for the person to be sent to death row.

In the instance of raping a young girl and leaving her to die, that could possibly fall under the "aggravating circumstances" that I was talking about. In theory, the defendant could be given the death penalty, but in practice it hasn't happend in over 60 years. You have to decide for yourself if attempted murder should be treated as seriously as murder one. Who's to say that in their head they wanted to kill that person. No matter how fucked up what they did was, that implication is usually what gets you the death penalty. A lack of remorse helps, too.

[Kolar]

so your proposing we put him in a violent crimes prison yard in a dress and makeup and allow gang rape from about 20 people?

he left a young girl bloodied and mutilated, and thats just her outward appearance. this guy deserves to die. your a piece of shit

This is a decent enough thread so either be respectful or you can enjoy a forum vacation. I don't think capital punishment is an appropriate punishment for anything less then at least manslaughter or murder if it is ever used. 45 US States agree and have removed it as a punishment for any crime less then murder. No one has been convicted and sentenced to death for rape since 1967. If he were convicted and sentenced based on attempted murder along with rape of a minor then it wouldn't be an issue.

That's what is feared out of this Nuggets. It opens the door for people to challenge existing federal and state bans on weapons no private citizen should have access to.

[404 Not Found]

On an environmental note, the Artic circle for the 1st time in recorded history as well as scientific study, note this will be the 1st time the polar ice cap completely melts.

Who's up for some top of the world sailing?

We can argue on the death penalty until we are blue in the face, but we are giving everyone on the planet the death penalty it seems with the ignorance and avoidance of such a topic of our environment.

We can seek for a planet similar to Earth in our galaxy and spend billions on the research to do so, yet we can't even take care of this planet.

F'd up world that WE ALL live in.

When the power of love overcomes the love of power the world will know peace. - Jimi Hendrix.

[Epinephrine]

agreed with supreme court being dousche bags. remember the elites in washington will always know more than them cajuns.


also


if your pro environment, as you say you are, wouldn't you want us doing our drilling instead of people using sub par tech in a forest some where creating multitudes more pollution? or are you just for the environment you can see around you and do not really care about earth but also like to wear those 'go green' shirts....



off note, any one see pelosi going coocoo for fairness doctrine? stupid bitch

Huh? You're making up stuff.

I think the environment is MUCH more important than driving some extra miles every day. I think the quality of life gained by a stable and healthy environment for the Earth far outweighs the quality of life gained by further economic benefits gained by producing more CO2 once you past a certain quality of life (of which the western world has passed a long time ago). That said, economic development respectful of the environment in terms of all types of pollution and sustainability is always welcome.

[DoTheFandango]

HOW DID YOU POST AT 1:06
ITS 12:56.
OMG HAXhax.

[Epinephrine]

How Did You Post At 1:12 If It's 12:56

[DankNuggets]

On an environmental note, the Artic circle for the 1st time in recorded history as well as scientific study, note this will be the 1st time the polar ice cap completely melts.

really? seems like this would be bigger news. I wonder if that applies to ice shelves? or if they even have them in the artic. I know people complained about polar ice melting and raising sea levels, but most of that ice is already floating, and therefore displacing as much water as it ever will.

On another note, less ice = more light gets into water = more carbon fixation = possible check/balance to global warming?

Note #2: it is now 2:30 EDT, i'm betting that the timestamp says 2:46

Note #3: why again did the calendar die 12/07? and could it be fixed along with the time?

[DankNuggets]

Bingo!! What Do I Win?

[Epinephrine]

really? seems like this would be bigger news. I wonder if that applies to ice shelves? or if they even have them in the artic. I know people complained about polar ice melting and raising sea levels, but most of that ice is already floating, and therefore displacing as much water as it ever will.

On another note, less ice = more light gets into water = more carbon fixation = possible check/balance to global warming?

Note #2: it is now 2:30 EDT, i'm betting that the timestamp says 2:46

Note #3: why again did the calendar die 12/07? and could it be fixed along with the time?

The warmer water is, the more it expands, thus higher sea levels.

Ice is white and thus reflects heat, water takes it in. This means once the ice is gone, the water will heat up at a much faster rate than it did while frozen.

More carbon fixation? What are you talking about? There will also be increased deserts as well, and large areas of the ocean will be too warm to sustain life (as the warmer water is, the less gases will dissolve into it).

[Summa]

Well I hope if we drill offshore that another large country doesn't claim it as "their oil" and there becomes a large squabble that results in another useless war or potentially WW3 if its a big nation. Honestly, we should focus on developing that whole alternative energy source thing; you know like the space power satellite and that kinda stuff. I mean what better way to pay off a humongous national debt than to develop the hottest commodity? Hey but what do I know about supply and demand right?


Anyways on a less serious note, you should all fear the week when Diablo 3 comes out. All the nerds that run this country will disappear into their caves for a week, we should be prepared for invasion or terrorist attacks.