China is the shit (olympics thread)

[Kolar]

You obviously know absolutely nothing about the country aside from the articles of the extremely biased western media.

Enough of that.

China has progressed far in the last 30 years given that Communism fell. But politically they are no different. People still lost their homes by force for this event and thousands more suffered to make it happen. I don't think you can say the same for Athens, Sydney or even Atlanta. The entire show was put on for the world to make us (the outside world) have a more favorable view of China given their internal problems and external in this globalized world. It hasn't opened up China more, there's still limits on international press, almost no protests are allowed and those that do have to register with the Government (you have to give them your home address and personal information to be part of a protest....) and continued, extremely arbitrary blocking of internet traffic. Host cities do not generally fair well post-Olympics but the IOC should have thought of this and the potential for any of it to change before awarding it to them.

For a Canadian to say that a strictly isolationist foreign policy should be praised in light of a strictly preemptive one is a joke. Countries have to act to prevent genocide and other acts of aggression, we did not follow along in Vietnam or Iraq because they were unjustified wars. Yet when one power wants to completely destroy another (Korean War, WW2) we had to act to save lives.

The UNSC is dysfunctional because all sides have an interest in starting and continuing wars, or in this case turning a blind eye to them. That's not an endorsement of this stupidity some children on here like to call "policing the world" but that the idea that the UN should stand for more then the petty interests of its member states and should always have an interest in peace, and certainly not the status-quo. But because they still do just like the United States can take it upon themselves to override the UN as we saw in Iraq, Russia can easily do the same with Georgia and get away with it. China doesn't really give a shit, as long as the fighting in Northern Darfur doesn't disrupt their oil operations.

Edit: Also the scorn and criticism of those that do stand up to the party shouldn't be directed at them for doing so, "They knew what was going to happen", it should be at those who can not stand to take any.

[Bioture]

wow... haters.

I'll be responding to some very ignorant things that have been said about the motherland soon... but in the meantime, I invite people to look at good things. No superpower is -perfect- so it's natural that some of you dwell on the "iron fist" thing. It's natural that you blame china for pollution even though America does way more pollution. It's natural that you pick at the little things when for the most part things are going pretty well.

For example - if you found out that they touched up the fireworks during the athens 2004 games, you probably wouldn't of gave it a second thought. Or at least no where near as much attention as people are giving china. Were there indignities that happened here and there on the way to the olympics? Sure there were. But is it so unprecedented that it deserves special attention?

Again I realize that to a degree, all negative comments have been exacerbated because of China's history. But for those of you who have never been in china, who were never there long enough to truly understand the dynamics of the population and what the people deal with on a day-to-day basis... please take some time to put things in perspective. A lot of things have changed, and a lot of things will change.

[Doc Flabby]

Western countries can't criticise China when we ourselves are copying them more and more. A similar idea to the great firewall of china is being actively considered in quite a few democratic countries all in the name of "protection" i often wonder if this game will die first or will be banned/blocked before then for using "unauthorised encryption".

As for human rights close down guantanmo bay and i might start to respect the USA on human rights. But that shit should never have been created and you guys should never have started torturing people, theres no excuse for it. A society is judged on what it does to its worst, not what it does to its best.


Meh these people at the top in Russia China and USA scare the shit out of me cos they don't care about us. Its all just a game to them. They care about power. We're just numbers to them. People to use.

[Emaho]

I still don't understand why they even let them have the Olympics. I didn't want to see the shit.

[Vue]

london will be better

[Kolar]

Even if that does happen Flabby I can always trust to have an appeal, representation and an open and fair trial. In Canada we do block websites containing kp. Any Democracy could use those tools to either end of the extreme regardless of how it effects their people. In any real democracy there has to be a potential for that to happen, but there's always the chance of it reversing coming to a neutral point.

What good is there Bio? What good can anyone see from the Olympic games being hosted there? There's wide spread oppression and crack down on dissent. It has given the party another opportunity to hang on to power, barring an extreme fuck up it was going to make them look good to their people at least.

Maybe you guys need to understand your bias and maybe take a minute to think: None of this would be allowed in China. By 12:15PM Eastern Standard Time today Conc, me, Cops and 3 or 4 others would be arrested. Locked away without appeal, no council, found to be "agents of destruction" and an offense to national unity and given years in jail (and 3 hours a day of reeducation) or the needle.

[RednaZ]

Feels like people are forgetting that China was a pretty awesome nation up untill we decided to gang rape it and tear it apart bit by bit.

[Cops]

You obviously know absolutely nothing about the country aside from the articles of the extremely biased western media. If you have actually been to the country, you'd realize how completely wrong your preconceptions actually are. Although I had a much more positive view of the place before I visited last year, I was completely blown away by how completely wrong I was in what I thought of the country and how far it had already advanced. Considering 30 years ago, people were not allowed to move away from their homes, were forced into collective farming communes, millions were carted away never to be seen again in forced labour camps, and contact with the rest of the world was strictly forbidden for all but an elite few, China has changed VERY VERY significantly from before. You would have to be completely blind to think otherwise.

As for China's foreign policy, their policy officially is let countries do what they want to do in their own borders. This is a different view of the world then the west's 'let's only help certain causes that have the media spotlight but not give a shit about other causes' policy, but not necessarily any worse. For every darfur that China doesn't care to be involved in, there's an Iraq that isn't invaded with tens of thousands dead.

People are still forced from their homes, did you forget about the people whose homes were destroyed to accommodate the current Olympic games? Do you remember the Three Gorge Dam which has left thousands upon thousands displaced and homeless? Do you remember when the Chinese government said they would accommodate those people, well that hasn't happened. What about the lack of labour laws to protect workers in China? China has progressed economically but it has done so on the backs of its own people.

I have given you a lot of respect for your level of education, I think you should give the same amount of respect and not write people off. I go to school to study media and detect biases, half the time I'm in school I'm reading news articles cutting through the shit to find the real answer. Considering Canada is one of the best outlets for journalism it is foolish to claim 'I'm influenced by western bias'. I'd also like to mention that you seem to have a bias towards China, thus you can't act impartial on this matter because you have feelings and emotions involved.

People in China are still governed by the Communist Party, people may have more food in their stomachs and more freedoms but those freedoms are given and taken away by the Communist Party. When the day comes that China fights for 'real freedom' then I'll say the country has changed. Right now those new freedoms that they have been accustom to can and will be taken away if the government deems it necessary. When a country could revert to its former self then the country hasn't truly progressed.

As far as your thoughts on foreign policy I believe Western nations are trying to do good around the world but countries are preventing this from happening (Russia, China, etc), and to say that by not preventing a genocide in Darfur it is justified because it also means China is likely to stop America from going to war is pretty messed up. You can't justify China's lack of concern for human life and the necessity to act as an international community because they might veto something worth while. The United Nations might as well not exist if China is just going to vote 'no' to everything regardless if it's justified or not.

[Squeezer]

You obviously know absolutely nothing about the country aside from the articles of the extremely biased western media. If you have actually been to the country, you'd realize how completely wrong your preconceptions actually are. Although I had a much more positive view of the place before I visited last year, I was completely blown away by how completely wrong I was in what I thought of the country and how far it had already advanced.

Really? I have many friends who've visited and have pictures of Chinese soldiers maintaining armed checkpoints. The police force is still brutal and acts without fear of recourse (hence detaining protesters which has already been discussed in the thread), and the government still supports their tactics. Are there firing squads ala the Mao days? I'm not really sure, but to say that they're "advanced," is disingenuous.

Considering 30 years ago, people were not allowed to move away from their homes, were forced into collective farming communes, millions were carted away never to be seen again in forced labour camps, and contact with the rest of the world was strictly forbidden for all but an elite few, China has changed VERY VERY significantly from before. You would have to be completely blind to think otherwise.

Changed in the sense that the working conditions are worse. The elite still exist and the poor are more numerous than ever. The only difference is that they've begun to buy into Chinese manufacturing and are inhabiting the factories in droves. They aren't paid decent wages and they work ridiculous hours 7 days a week. The general wealth of the average Chinese citizen hasn't risen. Add to that the terrible enviornmental conditions and I fail to see how this "significant change," has shown improvement. China may be different in the sense that not everyone lives in obscure villages, but the cities are growing massively overpopulated very quickly. Oh, and those old villages are being torn down at an unbelievable rate to make room for highways and other government projects. Those are the new Chinese being displaced.

As for China's foreign policy, their policy officially is let countries do what they want to do in their own borders. This is a different view of the world then the west's 'let's only help certain causes that have the media spotlight but not give a shit about other causes' policy, but not necessarily any worse. For every darfur that China doesn't care to be involved in, there's an Iraq that isn't invaded with tens of thousands dead.

Great, so millions die in Darfur because China doesn't want to pay what the rest of the world does for oil. Don't fall for the isolationist bullshit, the reason China wont let the UN intervene is because the current regime is feeding them through the oil pipeline. If the don't veto the rest of the security council then they lose a good thing. But whatever right? It's going on in Africa so who cares? Oh and those "tens of thousands" dead in Iraq pale in comparison to the UN estimated 400,000 killed by the Janjaweed in Darfur.

And to top it off, here's a quote from a spokeswoman for Global Witness, a non-government, non-partisan human rights group.

"Sudan has purchased about $100m in arms from China and has used these weapons against civilians in Darfur."

Yeah, isolationist my ass.

Oh don't worry, the Earth has seen this scale of pollution before. Guess who it was.

Heh smartass. At least the US has tried to clean the environment given the knowledge we have now. China has essentially put their hands over their ears and told the world to fuck off while the United States has been steadily improving for the last decade and a half. Though I do agree that if China had sprouted balls when we entered Iraq we probably wouldn't be there today. It makes more sense for them to keep the credit coming though. Along with the American defense industry, they'll be the major winners of this war.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

I have a question to you native Chinese, if there are any of you out there.

A few days ago, my wife and I watched a "documentary" short called "Please Vote For Me," which was set in a primary school in Wuhan. It followed three students during a lesson in democracy (which, albeit via a heavy-handed editing job, none of them seemed to know anything about). The three students were running for a sort of "class monitor" position. It was an interesting view, if for nothing else than showing how the three different families surrounding the children shaped the way each individual child handled the election period.

Okay, so the real question... an "insult" used between children was "slow eater" (as in, "Cheng Cheng is a slow eater!"). Now, I know some is probably lost in the translation, but do any of you have a better translation or a better analogue in English? I'm just not clear on why eating slowly is a bad thing.

[Heroin Bob]

Okay, so the real question... an "insult" used between children was "slow eater" (as in, "Cheng Cheng is a slow eater!"). Now, I know some is probably lost in the translation, but do any of you have a better translation or a better analogue in English? I'm just not clear on why eating slowly is a bad thing.

cuz you aint never been locked up with commies foo


-GIMMIE YOR BAKON-

[DankNuggets]

I have a question to you native Chinese, if there are any of you out there.

A few days ago, my wife and I watched a "documentary" short called "Please Vote For Me," which was set in a primary school in Wuhan. It followed three students during a lesson in democracy (which, albeit via a heavy-handed editing job, none of them seemed to know anything about). The three students were running for a sort of "class monitor" position. It was an interesting view, if for nothing else than showing how the three different families surrounding the children shaped the way each individual child handled the election period.

Okay, so the real question... an "insult" used between children was "slow eater" (as in, "Cheng Cheng is a slow eater!"). Now, I know some is probably lost in the translation, but do any of you have a better translation or a better analogue in English? I'm just not clear on why eating slowly is a bad thing.

maybe it had to do with the fact that they're in primary school.

doo-doo head isn't too much of an insult either

[RednaZ]

I saw that piece twice, maybe you missed the explanation in it. One of the kids mentioned that if you eat too slowly, everyone will be finished before you and you will not be able to "monitor" them, which essentially is the point of it all.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Ahhh, I must've missed that. Alright then. Makes more sense.

[Vykromond]

It followed three students during a lesson in democracy (which, albeit via a heavy-handed editing job, none of them seemed to know anything about)

I can't field the "slow eater" thing, but I can field this one. Most Chinese students who take classes in government/civics (of which at least the basics are in the primary curriculum between elementary and high school) do at least have a decent working knowledge of what 'democracy' is and how governmental systems in 'democratic' countries operate, more than I expected before getting the chance to chat with several. What they don't do is automatically operate under the assumption that this is actually a good or desirable way to run a country.