McCain picks Woman as VP, Hell freezes over.

[Squeezer]

I don't see groups of Christians coming together to fight a religious crusade against a country because they have a better life style.

I think you've made that abundantly clear. B)

[DoTheFandango]

I don't see groups of Christians coming together to fight a religious crusade against a country because they have a better life style.

See Crusades, Inquisition, Western Expansion, Maritime Expansion, Acquisition of Hawaii, Iraq.

[Cops]

he's banned, i'd say fuck it and we all toast some beer.

[Galleleo]

ITT it is revealed.

Well, if he wasn't a Muslim before, he is now. Or, I should say, Muslims would consider him a Muslim, for having said that prayer.

"Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
Allah is Supreme! Allah is Supreme!
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that there is no god but Allah
I witness that Muhammad is his prophet... "

Guys, Wark is a Muslim.

To be honest, I always think it sounds kinda awesome, that shouting from the towers at 5 am or whatever time it is. I don't know what they are saying, but I always think it sounds awesome.

[Epinephrine]

Back to the topic at hand, here's Matt Damon's take on it all:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6urw_PWHYk

[Exalt]

personally i would say being agnostic or athiest is a religion in itself and a very dangerous one at that

a belief in which you believe nothing but science means you have no moral standards beside what the government puts into law, and those laws were originally formed due to religions (which were around before governments) and thus are not moral standards for you athiests/agnostics

personally I think anyone of you gaining office would be FAR worse than a muslim or christian or any other religious person, because at least their faith backs up moral standards, unlike you

edit: also

See Crusades, Inquisition, Western Expansion, Maritime Expansion, Acquisition of Hawaii, Iraq.

only the crusades and inquisition were religious crusades in nature... the rest were not based on religion so go fuck yourself

far more wars were based on athiest beliefs than religious crusades... also lets not forget how fucked up society is when the leaders are athiest/agnostic... soviet union ring a bell? how about mao in china? shall we continue? these are modern day countries too, its not the middle ages

[Zeebu]

all i took away from that is you need to be religious to have morals



okay

[Zerzera]

personally i would say being agnostic or athiest is a religion in itself and a very dangerous one at that

a belief in which you believe nothing but science means you have no moral standards beside what the government puts into law, and those laws were originally formed due to religions (which were around before governments) and thus are not moral standards for you athiests/agnostics

personally I think anyone of you gaining office would be FAR worse than a muslim or christian or any other religious person, because at least their faith backs up moral standards, unlike you

No, I have morals. But unlike you I rationalized them, my morals are mine and I live by them. I don't pretend some views to be my morals because of my fear of some diety. I am probably less likely to sell out my morals because I have principles.
I understand that this scares you. I understand that it makes you jealous. You wish you had a strong mind like that, when you see me you have doubts whether your religion is the right path. I don't have that doubt.

[gran guerrero]

all i took away from that is you need to be religious to have morals



okay

duh, humans are incapable of it. Religion is the answer. Problem solved, next!

[Troll King]

personally i would say being agnostic or athiest is a religion in itself and a very dangerous one at that

a belief in which you believe nothing but science means you have no moral standards beside what the government puts into law, and those laws were originally formed due to religions (which were around before governments) and thus are not moral standards for you athiests/agnostics

personally I think anyone of you gaining office would be FAR worse than a muslim or christian or any other religious person, because at least their faith backs up moral standards, unlike you

edit: also

only the crusades and inquisition were religious crusades in nature... the rest were not based on religion so go fuck yourself

far more wars were based on athiest beliefs than religious crusades... also lets not forget how fucked up society is when the leaders are athiest/agnostic... soviet union ring a bell? how about mao in china? shall we continue? these are modern day countries too, its not the middle ages

I'm inclined to agree with your view that atheism seems like a religion in itself these days, especially with the kind of righteous fervor some atheists display, sometimes pushing their beliefs (or lack thereof) onto others the same way they accuse the religious of doing.

However, at the same time, and by the same logic, I disagree with your stance that atheists are thus without moral standards. As you pointed out, both atheists and the religious have been responsible for some pretty awful things. I think this shows that morality is a human concept; they may be shaped by religions, but they aren't necessarily limited by them.

[Fluffz]

ok, so how do you guys justify a moral standard without a god? If a mass murder claims the human rights to be wrong and his gore to be the ultimate fate of all existence, what do you tell him?

[Galleleo]

I usually say I just have no religion instead of calling myself atheist or agnostic (for instance, I don't even know enough about Buddishm or Taoism to denounce them or not, though I would probably never actually follow a religion, more take things out of it that I agree with). But what you are saying Exalt, is complete bullshit, other have already called you on it, and basically zerz said what I was going to say. I have my own morals, beliefs, principles, et etcetera. I don't need no religion for it.

[DoTheFandango]

only the crusades and inquisition were religious crusades in nature... the rest were not based on religion so go fuck yourself

"For we must consider that we shall be as a city upon a hill. The eyes of all people are upon us. So that if we shall deal falsely with our God in this work we have undertaken… we shall be made a story and a by-word throughout the world. We shall open the mouths of enemies to speak evil of the ways of God… We shall shame the faces of many of God's worthy servants, and cause their prayers to be turned into curses upon us til we be consumed out of the good land whither we are a-going."

[Epinephrine]

ok, so how do you guys justify a moral standard without a god? If a mass murder claims the human rights to be wrong and his gore to be the ultimate fate of all existence, what do you tell him?

Huh? Very easily. Before 0BC (or whatever Jesus was born) Christianity didn't even exist, yet moral standards still exist. As well there are lots of parts of the world which have NEVER had an overarching organized religion which have perfectly acceptable moral codes. Just because you cannot fathom morality without some belief in a god doesn't mean it's not possible.

See Plato, Socrates, Aristotle, most of modern western philosophy, Confucious, Daoism, etc etc etc

[Cops]

I've got to agree with Troll King on this one,

edit: Instead of trying to convince Exalt that he's an idiot you should all be celebrating the fact that Wark's gone, fuck Exalt, toast some beer and start making interesting threads that don't involve politics, cause honestly I've heard enough right wing rhetoric to do me for awhile.