Gay Marriage 2008- Topic revisited

[Capital Knockers]

Gays have the right to be just as trapped and miserable as straight people.

[Zerzera]

and it is that same baseless fear of change that tried to keep the institution of slavery around and women without equal rights.

That's only a strong statement if you are sure that Izor thinks those changes were good.

[Zerzera]

Freud is the father of psychology his methods are very well used today. Just like advil was last century we still use it today. Zerzera your last question was rather dumb think of a new one and try again because frankly it wasnt worth a reply. You shouldnt be saying others are ignorant, its the pot calling the kettle black.

This is spose to be a debate, not shit talking people, frankly its rather tiresome when someone gives an opinion and gets bashed for no reason. Bash the opinion not the person. I explained why I view it as why I view it, whats more for me to explain. Should I have to draw pictures, or use a pie chart for people who cant understand simple english? I've stated what I believed and thats that.[/rant]

Yes, but he also made a lot of assumptions on issues he didn't directly study. Even then I didn't even need to discredit the man because he never published anything you claimed. Above all he said you shouldn't judge people on their sexuality.

My question was using your logic, that's why it's stupid. It was mainly because there was no way I could have a sensible reply to such a sad statement.
There is no way I can't be condescending on the level of sophisms you display. How can we debate with you on your lies and simplistic views?
I know, let's start with you supporting your statement by quoting the right article about Freud saying that homosexuality is a choise.
If you can disprove that you are a liar, we have a debate again.

[Summa]

I said before and I'll say again: many people like me who may think its immoral/disgusting/wrong/etc have somewhat conceded to saying 'we dont really care what adults do until it directly affects us' If my child has to go through some fucking equal opportunity/tolerance lecture at school about faggots or worse yet reprimanded for making gay jokes ill be very pissed. I wouldnt want my kid to be subject to that. It's not an unreasonable fear and I know plenty of other people feel the same way.

and it is that same baseless fear of change that tried to keep the institution of slavery around and women without equal rights.

[MirrorriM]

Freud made a lot of important psychological contributions, but he also made a lot of mistakes, too. I dont know what everyone's backgrounds are, but as a person who studied the area of psychology and social behavior, it irritates me that people try to construe something that is not necessarily correct as the "truth." Many of my professors honored Freud's contributions, but they also did make note that not all of his theories were flawless and that there have been better interpretations of psychology made by other people.

From what I have learned, I believe that people who are gay were born gay. I've read research that talks about different chemicals involved in creating a boy or girl and how they work when the baby is being created. Sometimes, the wrong signal gets sent, and there you have it. A baby whose body was born male but whose brain was born female. Take it for what it's worth, but that's what I believe.

Someone else described it another way, which I have told people also. When you were growing up, did you think one day "Hey, I think I'm gonna be attracted to women." No, you didnt choose, you just "knew." I dont believe for one second that anyone here rationally sat down, dug deep into his self-awareness, and chose which gender to be attracted to.

I grew up in a Lutheran household, went to church every Sunday, the whole shebang. When I was younger I really did believe everything in the Bible as fact and everything the church said as fact. Now I see it as a book written by some guys trying to promote a better way to live life--from their perspective. I still cant get rid of the idea that Jesus/God may not exist, but now I allow far more flexibility in interpreting what is "morally right."

California has Proposition 8 which is about gay marriage. Vote no!

Proposition 8 is an initiative measure on the 2008 California General Election ballot titled Eliminates Right of Same-Sex Couples to Marry.[1][2] If passed, the proposition would change the California Constitution to eliminate the right of same-sex couples to marry in California[3]. A new section would be added stating "only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California."

The measure was submitted for the ballot by petitioners with the title "California Marriage Protection Act."[4][5] The title and summary were revised by Attorney General Jerry Brown to more "accurately reflect the measure."[6]

[Izor]

i wasn't aware that church and state were one. i will hand you physically, but whats wrong with adoption, artificial insemination, and surrogate mothers? its not like the entire world is going to go gay, and if you concede that sexual orientation is biological then you can't argue about the environment they are raised in as pushing them towards homosexuality. as for morality i don't see how its morally wrong to be with someone who makes you happy or that you want to be with and even if you do see it as immoral part of morality is making choices. it is their choice to walk the dark path and not yours to force them not to. so in the end i don't really think you have any case

I said before and I'll say again: many people like me who may think its immoral/disgusting/wrong/etc have somewhat conceded to saying 'we dont really care what adults do until it directly affects us' If my child has to go through some fucking equal opportunity/tolerance lecture at school about faggots or worse yet reprimanded for making gay jokes ill be very pissed. I wouldnt want my kid to be subject to that. It's not an unreasonable fear and I know plenty of other people feel the same way.

[Summa]

Gay = wrong on every level based on morality, religion, and physical... attributes.

i wasn't aware that church and state were one. i will hand you physically, but whats wrong with adoption, artificial insemination, and surrogate mothers? its not like the entire world is going to go gay, and if you concede that sexual orientation is biological then you can't argue about the environment they are raised in as pushing them towards homosexuality. as for morality i don't see how its morally wrong to be with someone who makes you happy or that you want to be with and even if you do see it as immoral part of morality is making choices. it is their choice to walk the dark path and not yours to force them not to. so in the end i don't really think you have any case

[Vykromond]

PLZZZZ do not putting your peenis in my anus mister i will do anything

dont worry it is ok here let me .. hold you .. . -_-

[Izor]

Furthermore, I don't see how a law that says that books shouldn't actively discriminate against gays and lesbians means that the words 'mom' and 'dad' can't be used. That's stupid. That's like saying that if books were not to actively discriminate against females, then we should just refer to everyone in it as 'it'. Obviously you can still use the words 'mom' and 'dad' and 'husband' and 'wife' without offending anyone, because these are value-free words which confer no judgement.

How do you figure? Same sex couples are not 'mom and dad' they're 'mom and mom' or 'dad and dad'

[Squeezer]

Gay = wrong on every level based on morality, religion, and physical... attributes.

I don't have the energy.

Today my neighbor, and I were watching hockey and he stepped out to smoke so I walked out to our deck with him. We started talking oil and all he could say was that it was "fuckin Chinese fault." I replied, "Well, that's one of the reasons..." and I was about to continue on, but in my head I said, fuck it.

Later on he also said that the Chinese can keep their fucking smog and that global warming wouldn't affect us especially since Obama was going to clean up our air when he became president. I just nodded my head.

[Kahlan]

Gay = wrong on every level based on morality, religion, and physical... attributes.

[Epinephrine]

Marriage is a religous term for man and women.

Excuse me? This is the most ignorant line of thought I've ever seen in my life, but sadly enough it's not just you that's saying stuff like this, it's what most of the people in the US and Canada who are against gay marriage seem to say.

Marriage is NOT, I repeat NOT religious, as the concept of marriage (two people joining together) is present in many societies around the world, many of which are NOT religious nor have anything to do with organized religion. You only need to look to China, the oldest continuous civilization in the world and home to 1/4 of the world's population, where the concept of 'marriage' has been practiced and religious free for thousands of years.

If you want further proof of this, you only need to look at the fact that non-religious people are allowed to marry. People from opposing religions are allowed to marry. And people are allowed to get a divorce even if some religions do not allow this to happen, they are still legally allowed to.

Marriage is just a word that defines when two people get together. Obviously in the past, this meant man and women, but I don't see any problem with expanding the definition to gays and lesbians as well who want to share their lives together.

To say 'civil unions' are okay and 'marriage' is not, is a common ploy to continue to discriminate against people who have different life choices, which is not any different from discriminating against people for any number of other things (i.e. race, sex, religion, etc). Why is this? It's not simply a 'word', because in reality because of the way the law is structured, unless you have the word 'marriage' attached to your pairing, you lose out on a lot of rights that the state (which is technically not religiously affiliated) accords people in the United States, such as hospital visitation rights and so on.


Furthermore, I don't see how a law that says that books shouldn't actively discriminate against gays and lesbians means that the words 'mom' and 'dad' can't be used. That's stupid. That's like saying that if books were not to actively discriminate against females, then we should just refer to everyone in it as 'it'. Obviously you can still use the words 'mom' and 'dad' and 'husband' and 'wife' without offending anyone, because these are value-free words which confer no judgement.

[Hakaku]

the things fags do to make themselves be treated fairly and explain the "plight" of their people is the same reason why so many people are against them.

The things anyone would do to get their message across include everything from peace, protest, to war. Perhaps I should mention Gandhi, Nelson Mandella, and Aung San Suu Kyi as some of our greater role models. Or even the abolition of slavery through the American Civil War, or American Independence through two wars with the British. Face it, people do anything; but only the extremists stand out. On the polar opposite end, you have people like The Most Hated Family in America who will accuse anyone of even merely sympathising with a view not their own of being gay and gay lovers. And for those who remember the Greyhound Bus Murder that occured recently, how does it feel to know the the latter family intended to go and protest at his funeral and claiming it as God's revenge for 'Canada's liberal tolerance towards gays'?

I neither agree with nudists running around flashing their junk all over just to make a point that they're homosexual, but I neither think it's right to single them out as the only group to do it. There are other nudists and weirdo paraders out there that could merit as much attention; the only difference is cultural tolerance and acceptance differs.

[kthx]

By Bob Unruh
© 2008 WorldNetDaily.com




Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger

An international organization promoting families says California families have no choice but to abandon the public school system after Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger signed a new "anti-discrimination" bill into law, effectively making terms like "mom" and dad" obsolete.

As WND has reported, some family advocates in California already had come to the same conclusion as that reached now by the World Congress of Families.

World Congress of Families Global Coordinator Allan Carlson said the measure, SB 777, is "a blatant attack on the natural family orchestrated by the alternative-lifestyles lobby."

The exodus call had been issued just one day earlier by Randy Thomasson, president of Campaign for Children and Families. "We're calling upon every California parent to pull their child out of California's public school system," he told WND.

"The so-called 'public schools' are no longer a safe emotional environment for children. Under the new law, schoolchildren as young as kindergarten will be sexually indoctrinated and introduced to homosexuality, bisexuality, and transsexuality, over the protests of parents, teachers and even school districts," he said.

The law at issue went through the California legislature as SB 777, and now bans in school texts and activities any discriminatory bias against those who have chosen alternative sexual lifestyles, Meredith Turney, legislative liaison for Capitol Resource Institute, said.

The World Congress noted the law prohibits "instruction" or "activity" that is perceived to "promote a discriminatory bias" against "gender," including cross-dressing and sex-change operations as well as "so-called sexual orientation."

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I basically already had this discussion in the other thread, but when a tiny minority tries to force a huge majority to be PC about it, it only makes it worse. And this is another example, besides the San Fransicko BDSM fest that has guys in penis costumes dancing around the public streets. This is the sick shit that the homo's that Izor dislikes, the ones who leave their house and want to exclaim to the world that doesn't really care that they are fags. Now considering the Church stands for morals, decency, and the word of god, and that Marriage is a religious ceremony, I think that homosexual marriage is a sacreligious event. Also what about the fact that preachers are being forced to do these marriages at the risk of going to jail or facing discrimination charges... the things fags do to make themselves be treated fairly and explain the "plight" of their people is the same reason why so many people are against them.

[Xog]

is anyone waiting for me to say something?


Harvey Milk High School in the city here has been open for a while (i haven't heard anything for a couple years about it) but I remember visiting there to see what it was like during that .."phase"... It was a haven for the LGBTQs, pretty cool.


http://edition.cnn.com/2003/EDUCATIO...gay.school.ap/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Milk_High_School