George Walker Bush

[froedrick]

God damnit. You beat me to it.

Socialism in Europe /= Socialism in America.

We know you're more radical, we've all heard about it. You guys also don't understand our govt as well as we do...Since that's out of the way, carry on.

edit: I should clarify. Socialism in terms of American govt. /= Socialism in terms of Euro govts.

You're neighbors to the north have lots of socialist programs and we are a lot more liberal than you. But we're very much alike in many ways, so why is it you think that socialism for you would be different than Europeans? Is it because there was a huge campaign after the second world war to frighten the American population against communism/socialism and now it has been ingrained in your everyday life? Or is it you personally along with others on this board have study extensively how a government run medical program would affect your country and its ability to thrive? Have you already extensively study the fact that you already have socialist programs running in your country and choose to ignore them (police forces, firefighters)?

Anyways I'm not for saying you need to be socialist or anything of the like, I'm just saying relax, and realize that maybe the reason they aren't the same towards Euro/American might have nothing to do whether it's right or wrong.

[froedrick]

An Opinion Research Business (ORB) survey conducted August 12-19, 2007 estimated 1,220,580 violent deaths due to the Iraq War (range of 733,158 to 1,446,063.)

According to the Centers for Disease Control (CDC), there were 854,122 legal induced abortions in the US in 2003

Pretty close. So do you agree with the Iraq war? I think Conc asked you and you ignored the question. So once again.

Do you agree with the Iraq war?

[404 Not Found]

You're neighbors to the north have lots of socialist programs and we are a lot more liberal than you. But we're very much alike in many ways, so why is it you think that socialism for you would be different than Europeans? Is it because there was a huge campaign after the second world war to frighten the American population against communism/socialism and now it has been ingrained in your everyday life? Or is it you personally along with others on this board have study extensively how a government run medical program would affect your country and its ability to thrive? Have you already extensively study the fact that you already have socialist programs running in your country and choose to ignore them (police forces, firefighters)?

Anyways I'm not for saying you need to be socialist or anything of the like, I'm just saying relax, and realize that maybe the reason they aren't the same towards Euro/American might have nothing to do whether it's right or wrong.

Many people in the U.S. do not even realize that certain states have full medical coverage or socialized medicine for every citizen in the state as well as a flat tax. Look at Hawaii for example....a State within the Union that has socialized medicine and a flat tax...how novel!

People in the states for the most part have never traveled outside the country, let alone their own state; they have some odd notion about what socialism is and run on the fears of what they hear others spew from their mouths.

Odd that many of the people that will be worried about socialism and social programs in fear that it will be communism probably have more retail goods from clothes to electronics and so on that are manufactured in a socialist or communist country...but does that bother most people...nah...not until it effects their personal well being or job. Just like this joke of a war in Iraq...70% of the nation could care less about it and if 1000's die. It does not effect their daily life or stop them from watching Survivor or whatever dumb ass TV show is on TV that holds higher merits.

[Money]

Many people in the U.S. do not even realize that certain states have full medical coverage or socialized medicine for every citizen in the state as well as a flat tax. Look at Hawaii for example....a State within the Union that has socialized medicine and a flat tax...how novel!

People in the states for the most part have never traveled outside the country, let alone their own state; they have some odd notion about what socialism is and run on the fears of what they hear others spew from their mouths.

Odd that many of the people that will be worried about socialism and social programs in fear that it will be communism probably have more retail goods from clothes to electronics and so on that are manufactured in a socialist or communist country...but does that bother most people...nah...not until it effects their personal well being or job. Just like this joke of a war in Iraq...70% of the nation could care less about it and if 1000's die. It does not effect their daily life or stop them from watching Survivor or whatever dumb ass TV show is on TV that holds higher merits.

texas has the gold card

all prescriptions are 5 dollars and you dont have to pay shit when u go to the ER, they try and get u to pay like 5$ thats all, as long as u pay SOMETHING...but they cant refuse treatment at the county hospitals...they can at others tho if u dont have insurance

[Squeezer]

You're neighbors to the north have lots of socialist programs and we are a lot more liberal than you. But we're very much alike in many ways, so why is it you think that socialism for you would be different than Europeans? Is it because there was a huge campaign after the second world war to frighten the American population against communism/socialism and now it has been ingrained in your everyday life? Or is it you personally along with others on this board have study extensively how a government run medical program would affect your country and its ability to thrive? Have you already extensively study the fact that you already have socialist programs running in your country and choose to ignore them (police forces, firefighters)?

Anyways I'm not for saying you need to be socialist or anything of the like, I'm just saying relax, and realize that maybe the reason they aren't the same towards Euro/American might have nothing to do whether it's right or wrong.

I think you've mistaken me for someone that would disagree with Socialism. I've called for socialized medicine many-a-times and realize that there are already govt. run programs that could qualify as socialistic. Hell, I'd rather live under benevolent socialist leadership than the current crapitalism cutthroats we have right now.

But government in America (two party system) is not structured the same as most Euro govts. Nor do they have the same level of diversity and competing interest groups vying for a say in the way things are run.

[Nycle]

Too bad "socialism" is almost like a dirty word in the US and is often treated with great misconception. As a few people mentioned earlier, I too think this is probably caused by the fact that so many Americans tend not to let their views develop beyond their own country. This is common trait in any big country though, the larger they become the more inward-looking they tend to be so I don't blame them. And no I'm not basing my judgment on a stereotype, most of my family is American and I go there every year, but unfortunately the general view I'm getting is an unworldly one whenever I get into more "in-depth" conversations whenever I'm there.

I think it's also due to differing circumstances that "socialism" never really had a chance to develop up to par with European (for the sake of a benchmark) standards. Europe had been in a continuous state of war ever since the fall of the Roman empire which eventually erupted into two world wars which devastated the entire continent. After the last war citizens demanded that their governments provided them with the social protection they saw as their right, largely to prevent the people from ever having to experience the impoverished conditions that the continent's strained relations brought with them again (and by that also limiting the chance of conflict). The US never really had this problem (homogenous people, culture, etc.) so I see this as a big factor for the US being the only industrialised nation lagging behind in constructing a decent social framework: they'd rather uphold the status quo (whether it works properly is up for debate) than changing to something that is largely unknown to them.

[Kolar]

But government in America (two party system) is not structured the same as most Euro govts. Nor do they have the same level of diversity and competing interest groups vying for a say in the way things are run.

Politically up here you could call it a two party system. No other party then the Liberals (Center-Left socially, Centrist-leaning right on the economy) and the Conservatives (Socially conservative, right of center on the economy) have formed a Government here.

Different elements have had control over the Conservatives and they've merged some splinter parties like Reform which were originally Conservative/Progressive Conservative but both parties have generally fell into these two narratives, one is Centrist and the other is right of center. The BQ and NDP have never come close to forming a Government and rarely formed the opposition. The bulk of the parties base is also generally the same over time, Western Canada save for a few spots go completely Conservative and most east of Manitoba (just past North Dakota) go Liberal and NDP (far left of center, especially in Ontario) and Quebec is mainly Bloc Quebecois (French nationalist/separatist party).

I'm not disagreeing with you for the sake of disagreeing but Canada it seems is very diverse culturally and socially in comparison to the US. I think froedrick is right a lot of it is about perception and not exactly about substance. The arguments made against universal health care for example are more often based on emotion rather then on logic and facts.

[Troll King]

Politically up here you could call it a two party system. No other party then the Liberals (Center-Left socially, Centrist-leaning right on the economy) and the Conservatives (Socially conservative, right of center on the economy) have formed a Government here.

Different elements have had control over the Conservatives and they've merged some splinter parties like Reform which were originally Conservative/Progressive Conservative but both parties have generally fell into these two narratives, one is Centrist and the other is right of center. The BQ and NDP have never come close to forming a Government and rarely formed the opposition. The bulk of the parties base is also generally the same over time, Western Canada save for a few spots go completely Conservative and most east of Manitoba (just past North Dakota) go Liberal and NDP (far left of center, especially in Ontario) and Quebec is mainly Bloc Quebecois (French nationalist/separatist party).

I'm not disagreeing with you for the sake of disagreeing but Canada it seems is very diverse culturally and socially in comparison to the US. I think froedrick is right a lot of it is about perception and not exactly about substance. The arguments made against universal health care for example are more often based on emotion rather then on logic and facts.

It's when you look at the provincial level that you start seeing parties other than the Conservative and Liberal parties making a significant difference. At the federal level, the other parties don't have as much influence, but they have played significant roles in keeping the ruling parties in check, especially in a minority government situation. You just have to look at the previous Liberal minority's last budget to see the NDP's fingerprints all over it.

[Kolar]

That's true TK but it also strengthens the case being made that the US is not somehow unique in Government among other western nations.

[Money]

strengthens*

[Squeezer]

Politically up here you could call it a two party system. No other party then the Liberals (Center-Left socially, Centrist-leaning right on the economy) and the Conservatives (Socially conservative, right of center on the economy) have formed a Government here.

Different elements have had control over the Conservatives and they've merged some splinter parties like Reform which were originally Conservative/Progressive Conservative but both parties have generally fell into these two narratives, one is Centrist and the other is right of center. The BQ and NDP have never come close to forming a Government and rarely formed the opposition. The bulk of the parties base is also generally the same over time, Western Canada save for a few spots go completely Conservative and most east of Manitoba (just past North Dakota) go Liberal and NDP (far left of center, especially in Ontario) and Quebec is mainly Bloc Quebecois (French nationalist/separatist party).

I'm not disagreeing with you for the sake of disagreeing but Canada it seems is very diverse culturally and socially in comparison to the US. I think froedrick is right a lot of it is about perception and not exactly about substance. The arguments made against universal health care for example are more often based on emotion rather then on logic and facts.

I meant more in terms of money being tossed around for the sake of pushing a single-oriented cause; especially proportional to the large size of the population. Lobbying is an expensive sport in this country and there are tons of groups taking their stake in the way legislation is made. The all speak on behalf of the people willing to donate and shape the way the country is run. I shouldn't speak in absolutes, as my post was written. My bad. All I was trying to say is that America is a very diversely populated land not only in terms of regions but also in race, religion, natural language, political disposition etc. etc. More attention is paid to this competition among people that fall on either side of the arguments, than anywhere in the world. This nation's also full of wealthy people willing to shell out money for moneymaking causes.

I don't see Canada as a close equivalent to America, but to be honest I don't have enough experience with the country. You guys are your own country and are diverse your own right. I've been to Western Canada and though I haven't had the pleasure of heading out east, I've heard from many sources that the people living there are vastly different. A lot of times the Westerners say you guys are stuck up. My neighbor (a die hard Canucks fan) hates the Montreal Canadians. There's also the language barrier of French and English which we don't have. There are other language barriers in this country, but not in the levels of government.

What I'm really, really, really trying to get at is this country is perfect for being an asshole. The laws help enable people to adopt radical opinions and be loud with them. The culture helps fuel this and politics help make it a business. Reality television is the ugly step child.

edit: Okay, the way I understand it (from wiki), Canada also has a bicameral legislature made up of a Senate and House of Commons. The Senate has 105 members selected by the Governor General, who is appointed by the Prime minister. They can't write up legislation on money apparently.

House of commons is essentially our house of reps. I guess in structure Canada's government is similar to ours. I still maintain that the scope of our society is often undervalued during these discussions. Sure the idiots are quick to flex our military superiority, but we don't really delve into how our political culture and media separates us from the rest world, for better or worse.

[Cops]

And everyone who is out there trying to get laid knows what can happen. Im not going to tell you what you should believe in abortion, but i was one of those kids in highschool who knocked up a girl. Now im 25 and my Daughter is in 1st grade and i cant imagine ever taking that life away because i wasnt man enough to own up to her.

So, you were 16 or 20 when she was born? Huge difference. I'm 21 and if my girlfriend got preggers I'd be a father too. My situation is that we have people around us that could help us. Not everyone has that luxury. I'm not the same person when I was 16, it might have only been five years ago but mentally and emotionally I'm a much 'wholer' person. Asking a kid in grade 10 to take care of a kid is ridiculous. There's a huge difference between someone in grade 10 and someone finishing high-school or entering college/university.

I'm not saying it's right or wrong, it's up to that person to find that out for themselves.

[Cops]

I meant more in terms of money being tossed around for the sake of pushing a single-oriented cause; especially proportional to the large size of the population. Lobbying is an expensive sport in this country and there are tons of groups taking their stake in the way legislation is made. The all speak on behalf of the people willing to donate and shape the way the country is run. I shouldn't speak in absolutes, as my post was written. My bad. All I was trying to say is that America is a very diversely populated land not only in terms of regions but also in race, religion, natural language, political disposition etc. etc. More attention is paid to this competition among people that fall on either side of the arguments, than anywhere in the world. This nation's also full of wealthy people willing to shell out money for moneymaking causes.

I don't see Canada as a close equivalent to America, but to be honest I don't have enough experience with the country. You guys are your own country and are diverse your own right. I've been to Western Canada and though I haven't had the pleasure of heading out east, I've heard from many sources that the people living there are vastly different. A lot of times the Westerners say you guys are stuck up. My neighbor (a die hard Canucks fan) hates the Montreal Canadians. There's also the language barrier of French and English which we don't have. There are other language barriers in this country, but not in the levels of government.

What I'm really, really, really trying to get at is this country is perfect for being an asshole. The laws help enable people to adopt radical opinions and be loud with them. The culture helps fuel this and politics help make it a business. Reality television is the ugly step child.

edit: Okay, the way I understand it (from wiki), Canada also has a bicameral legislature made up of a Senate and House of Commons. The Senate has 105 members selected by the Governor General, who is appointed by the Prime minister. They can't write up legislation on money apparently.

House of commons is essentially our house of reps. I guess in structure Canada's government is similar to ours. I still maintain that the scope of our society is often undervalued during these discussions. Sure the idiots are quick to flex our military superiority, but we don't really delve into how our political culture and media separates us from the rest world, for better or worse.

Just out of curiosity how much media coverage of Canada do you do as as journalism student? From what we cover and what I watch, CNN, MSNBC, CBC, CTV, CITY TV (Toronto), CP 24, Global, and anything else we pull stories off of I find that we cover a lot on America. I'll stay out of the culture-war that's going on but from my experience we're a lot more informed on America and American politics in general. At least enough to say that we know a lot more about what's going on in America than America knows what's going on in Canada.

Westerners are overwhelmingly less accepting of people than Ontarians, and don't get me wrong we're completly stuck up. We think the world and more so this country revolves around us. Politically and economically it does revolve around us. Flex deez nutz bitch. Alberta's success is based on oil, once that drys up they'll be back to sucking on Ontario's teet.

[froedrick]

Just out of curiosity how much media coverage of Canada do you do as as journalism student? From what we cover and what I watch, CNN, MSNBC, CBC, CTV, CITY TV (Toronto), CP 24, Global, and anything else we pull stories off of I find that we cover a lot on America. I'll stay out of the culture-war that's going on but from my experience we're a lot more informed on America and American politics in general. At least enough to say that we know a lot more about what's going on in America than America knows what's going on in Canada.

Westerners are overwhelmingly less accepting of people than Ontarians, and don't get me wrong we're completly stuck up. We think the world and more so this country revolves around us. Politically and economically it does revolve around us. Flex deez nutz bitch. Alberta's success is based on oil, once that drys up they'll be back to sucking on Ontario's teet.

The country doesn't end at Quebec, there's 4 more provinces on the east coast!

This whole thing about whether or not Canadians are more involved and know more about American politics than Americans know about Canadian politics seems a bit gray to me. If it is true, then I can understand that the reason for this is the United States is the biggest and most influential Country in the world. So as a part of understanding the World better, one would have to immerse themselves in American politics. Canadian lives are intrinsically connected to the US and its government. All outsiders to the US have a vested interest in the US, they are and I say again right now the most powerful country in the world so yes we will pay close attention.

Now from my experience working in tourism and traveling to the US and going to school with Americans. I would say that it is kind of a generalization that Americans don't pay attention to other countries, their politics or anything outside their borders. I've rarely met one American who had not heard of Newfoundland, which is more than I can say for some Canadians I've met (weird eh?). In fact every American I've ever met has known everything that the TV says they don't know. Maybe I'm just meeting a certain group of Americans, perhaps. But I really don't think out of the 350 million of them that there aren't millions who don't know about Canada or the rest of the world.
Now as to News broadcasting, CNN reports on all kinds of things (not necessarily Canadian things, but from time to time). They report on things that I guess they would assume would be important to the American public. Now I'm not saying the media in the states is very good, but what exactly to the main population of America does Stephen Harper traveling to Afghanistan really mean to them? It doesn't mean much to most Canadians I don't think. But if George W. was over in Iraq, that's much more news worthy and would get better ratings for both countries. I mean, he could have a grenade thrown at him, he's in a major war zone etc.

Anyways, my point is that don't assume Canada is more informed, or that we are especially smarter than Americans, because it's simply not true. There are probably many more smart people in the US than there are in Canada.

[Squeezer]

Canadian media in my Journalism classes? Aw hellz no.

Most of our course revolve around American media, but some of the 400 levels are specific media coverage (IE broadcasting in the Middle East, Spanish new media, and a class studying the BBC), but for the most part we have such a powerful media in our own country that we most of us are overexposed without ever stepping foot in a classroom.