George Walker Bush

[gran guerrero]

guys I have a theory about abortion

white christians don't want it to happen cause the whiteys are dwindling to the amount of babies spewed out by minorities.

the black/spanish christians dont want it to happen so they can continue building their armies.

it's totally about a religious race war

[Squeezer]

guys I have a theory about abortion

white christians don't want it to happen cause the whiteys are dwindling to the amount of babies spewed out by minorities.

the black/spanish christians dont want it to happen so they can continue building their armies.

it's totally about a religious race war

welcum back

[Kolar]

I meant more in terms of money being tossed around for the sake of pushing a single-oriented cause; especially proportional to the large size of the population. Lobbying is an expensive sport in this country and there are tons of groups taking their stake in the way legislation is made. The all speak on behalf of the people willing to donate and shape the way the country is run.

That's true you guys do have a lot of lobbyist on Capitol Hill. I don't know about lobbying up here but apparently election contributions can only be made by private citizens up to $1,100 dollars per campaign. So business and unions are excluded from heavily influencing the process. It probably follows being the one of the most influential and powerful nation in the world but the "spirit" of competition or whatever you want to call it is something to be proud of and I think is something makes the US a good country. But it can also lead to a lot of partisanship and discord, what people would call American style politics up here, particularly from the right. Without "wall of texting" you I think people want the substance without the style, without the partisanship and bickering which can turn a lot of people away from being involved/caring.


If the US is divided ideologically by North and South then Canada is divided along similar lines East to West. That seems to be the way things are today but the New Democratic Party was born out of Saskatchewan so I wouldn't say the west has always been "stuck up". I think because this country is so vast and historically it was a mesh of pretty much Western Canada, Ontario and Manitoba in the middle and Quebec (though often unwilling) culturally people will see this country and the world differently. The most obvious sign of this is the fact that both Quebec and the Prairies have Nationalist-Sovereigntist parties/elements, however insignificant on the Federal and Provincial levels they do exist. You would probably never see something like that in Ontario.

[Squeezer]

That's true you guys do have a lot of lobbyist on Capitol Hill. I don't know about lobbying up here but apparently election contributions can only be made by private citizens up to $1,100 dollars per campaign. So business and unions are excluded from heavily influencing the process. It probably follows being the one of the most influential and powerful nation in the world but the "spirit" of competition or whatever you want to call it is something to be proud of and I think is something makes the US a good country. But it can also lead to a lot of partisanship and discord, what people would call American style politics up here, particularly from the right. Without "wall of texting" you I think people want the substance without the style, without the partisanship and bickering which can turn a lot of people away from being involved/caring.


If the US is divided ideologically by North and South then Canada is divided along similar lines East to West. That seems to be the way things are today but the New Democratic Party was born out of Saskatchewan so I wouldn't say the west has always been "stuck up". I think because this country is so vast and historically it was a mesh of pretty much Western Canada, Ontario and Manitoba in the middle and Quebec (though often unwilling) culturally people will see this country and the world differently. The most obvious sign of this is the fact that both Quebec and the Prairies have Nationalist-Sovereigntist parties/elements, however insignificant on the Federal and Provincial levels they do exist. You would probably never see something like that in Ontario.

I think you mistook my view of American politics for favor of American politics. I hate the fact that this stupid country is purely about being the best. No matter what ridiculous fucking activity you choose, it is essential that you compete! I can't stand the partisanship that's been brewing in this country which partially stemmed from our competitive nature. Ideological divisiveness doesn't benefit any of us. The media I believe, is also largely to blame for fueling this, as I've explained.

Our country isn't necessarily North and South anymore either. It's kind of morphed now into a "Liberal" vs. "Conservative" slap fight. People declare their beliefs openly and we're just irritable and edgy enough in this country to fuck each other up without thinking it through (social violence). Most of us are assholes, a lot of us are armed and none of us like being wrong.

Most conservatives live in the midwest and south while most of the liberals live in the northeast and west coast. I figure America will never war with itself again unless some stupid bitch loses American Idol and pisses us all off.

edit: just re-read it, I sound bitchy. I'm just tired and overworked. I'm really not as bitter as I sound.

[Kolar]

I think you mistook my view of American politics for favor of American politics. I hate the fact that this stupid country is purely about being the best. No matter what ridiculous fucking activity you choose, it is essential that you compete! I can't stand the partisanship that's been brewing in this country which partially stemmed from our competitive nature. Ideological divisiveness doesn't benefit any of us. The media I believe, is also largely to blame for fueling this, as I've explained.

Our country isn't necessarily North and South anymore either. It's kind of morphed now into a "Liberal" vs. "Conservative" slap fight. People declare their beliefs openly and we're just irritable and edgy enough in this country to fuck each other up without thinking it through (social violence). Most of us are assholes, a lot of us are armed and none of us like being wrong.

Most conservatives live in the midwest and south while most of the liberals live in the northeast and west coast. I figure America will never war with itself again unless some stupid bitch loses American Idol and pisses us all off.

edit: just re-read it, I sound bitchy. I'm just tired and overworked. I'm really not as bitter as I sound.

Well I didn't mean competition necessarily but maybe excellence? Competition does generally lead to greater partisanship and animosity but not everything is about beating out the other guy. I wasn't under the impression that you were in favor of anything but I don't see a problem if people want to be proud of their country but not in the 'down on your knees about to take one for the team' kind of way Izor and Wark seem to be. I will concede socially and politically you guys are unique. I was talking about the left vs. right thing and I see our politics and society moving more towards this.

[Material Girl]

I would say that it is kind of a generalization that Americans don't pay attention to other countries, their politics or anything outside their borders. I've rarely met one American who had not heard of Newfoundland, which is more than I can say for some Canadians I've met (weird eh?).

I love Americans. They always know just what to say and do. It took me a long time to figure out why the Canadians are thought to be "so polite" but now I realise it's because Canadians are usually so uptight and insincere with their passing greetings,.... as opposed to Americans, who are so real. AND... of all the provinces I've visited, which is most, Newfoundlanders seem to be the most like Americans. They have this joke thing where assumptions are made that they're stupid, but it is not so. B)

[Cops]

The country doesn't end at Quebec, there's 4 more provinces on the east coast!

This whole thing about whether or not Canadians are more involved and know more about American politics than Americans know about Canadian politics seems a bit gray to me. If it is true, then I can understand that the reason for this is the United States is the biggest and most influential Country in the world. So as a part of understanding the World better, one would have to immerse themselves in American politics. Canadian lives are intrinsically connected to the US and its government. All outsiders to the US have a vested interest in the US, they are and I say again right now the most powerful country in the world so yes we will pay close attention.

Now from my experience working in tourism and traveling to the US and going to school with Americans. I would say that it is kind of a generalization that Americans don't pay attention to other countries, their politics or anything outside their borders. I've rarely met one American who had not heard of Newfoundland, which is more than I can say for some Canadians I've met (weird eh?). In fact every American I've ever met has known everything that the TV says they don't know. Maybe I'm just meeting a certain group of Americans, perhaps. But I really don't think out of the 350 million of them that there aren't millions who don't know about Canada or the rest of the world.
Now as to News broadcasting, CNN reports on all kinds of things (not necessarily Canadian things, but from time to time). They report on things that I guess they would assume would be important to the American public. Now I'm not saying the media in the states is very good, but what exactly to the main population of America does Stephen Harper traveling to Afghanistan really mean to them? It doesn't mean much to most Canadians I don't think. But if George W. was over in Iraq, that's much more news worthy and would get better ratings for both countries. I mean, he could have a grenade thrown at him, he's in a major war zone etc.

Anyways, my point is that don't assume Canada is more informed, or that we are especially smarter than Americans, because it's simply not true. There are probably many more smart people in the US than there are in Canada.

My point was that the journalists are being taught specific things to cover. American media is focused on America, Canada's media is not. If you don't believe Squeezer who is in school to be a journalist, then watch an America newscast and see how many times they mention Canada. Never.

I like the East Coast, don't get me wrong. However, Economically the East Coast relies on Ontario's tax dollars. The provinces are unique and are all important but when it comes to the economy and politics Ontario carries the most weight.

Edit: really? You're serious? You honestly think Newfoundland is like America? Okay.

Edit x2: Newfoundland has 7 Federal Seats and Ontario has 107. I'm not saying that because we have more seats we matter more, but it's undeniable that Ontario carries more weight in the federal government.

Edit x3: I never assumed Canadians are smarter or more intellectual than Canadians. I think America is full of brilliant people, just like any country. I'll even concede that Canada on a world stage isn't comparable to America. So of course they don't give a shit about us. If you follow news to the depth I'm starting to you realize that stories that don't even have any significance to Canada, or really carry much weight still get play time in Canada.

You also start to realize how Americanized our media is and how the Canadian voice is being lost. Anyways I'm passing out, night.

[Cops]

Oh, I forgot to mention that Canada's politics is so bland and that people are more inclined to follow American politics. Sometimes it seems that we're more focused on what's going on in our backyard instead of finding out what's going on in our house.

As far as promotion dollars go you're ten times better off covering an American story instead of a Canadian story. I can't really complain about bland politics, it's a lot better to be bland then living in America and going through what they're going through.

[froedrick]

My point was that the journalists are being taught specific things to cover. American media is focused on America, Canada's media is not. If you don't believe Squeezer who is in school to be a journalist, then watch an America newscast and see how many times they mention Canada. Never.

I like the East Coast, don't get me wrong. However, Economically the East Coast relies on Ontario's tax dollars. The provinces are unique and are all important but when it comes to the economy and politics Ontario carries the most weight.

Edit: really? You're serious? You honestly think Newfoundland is like America? Okay.

Edit x2: Newfoundland has 7 Federal Seats and Ontario has 107. I'm not saying that because we have more seats we matter more, but it's undeniable that Ontario carries more weight in the federal government.

I think you missed my point entirely Cops, I'm commenting on WHY the media in the US is focused mainly on itself, and I'm arguing that to say Canadians know more about American politics than the reverse is a bit of an overstep just by saying you watch tv and that Squeezer in a media school says they don't do much about Canada there. I don't think that portrays at all American intelligence nor their interest/knowledge about the world or Canada. And let's not get into a debate about whether or not the east coast could not function if not for Ottawa, because it will be pointless. The only reason I even mentioned that there are 4 other provinces after Quebec is because you were all speaking in a tone like Quebec was the end of Canada. This had nothing to do with haves and have nots at all. Don't think of it as a war between provinces because it's not. I'm glad to say that Newfoundland is also on an upswing for the first time in oh, forever maybe, due to offshore oil deposits. This will be good for Newfoundland because the money that comes in will help towards infrastructure to help with other natural resources (fresh water, and hydro-electric power). So maybe we won't have to continue to suckle on ol' mama Ottawa's teetees. I'm sure they're getting pretty dried up by now, wouldn't you say?

[Squeezer]

In all honesty they don't teach us Canadian media because few students are looking for work up north when we graduate.

The jobs are still here in America and most of us grew up in this system so it seems natural to report it. This quarter I'm taking a "History of Mass Media" class. In this history there is no mention of any media source outside of America. We cover Watergate, Vietnam, 9/11, Boss Tweed, the Revolution and other notable moments in Journalism. But if you took the class and didn't know any better you might think that there isn't news in the rest of the world.

[Cops]

I think you missed my point entirely Cops, I'm commenting on WHY the media in the US is focused mainly on itself, and I'm arguing that to say Canadians know more about American politics than the reverse is a bit of an overstep just by saying you watch tv and that Squeezer in a media school says they don't do much about Canada there. I don't think that portrays at all American intelligence nor their interest/knowledge about the world or Canada. And let's not get into a debate about whether or not the east coast could not function if not for Ottawa, because it will be pointless. The only reason I even mentioned that there are 4 other provinces after Quebec is because you were all speaking in a tone like Quebec was the end of Canada. This had nothing to do with haves and have nots at all. Don't think of it as a war between provinces because it's not. I'm glad to say that Newfoundland is also on an upswing for the first time in oh, forever maybe, due to offshore oil deposits. This will be good for Newfoundland because the money that comes in will help towards infrastructure to help with other natural resources (fresh water, and hydro-electric power). So maybe we won't have to continue to suckle on ol' mama Ottawa's teetees. I'm sure they're getting pretty dried up by now, wouldn't you say?

I hate to flex nuts, but I'm taking History in Mass Media, rather I've already taken the course. The Canadian version of this course is so broad that it doesn't focus on just one person, country, event, subject, etc, etc. We've learned not just about historical points in Media, but also some of Media's most influential people.

I'm not basing any judgment solely on the fact that I watch the news, a lot. I've talked to several journalists attending post-secondary schools in America. I'm not just basing my opinions of students and media that I've regurgitated. I'm basing my judgment on my own beliefs and have had those beliefs re-confirmed by Producers, Directors, and all around professionals who have experiencing working in both countries. Not only have these people worked in both countries they've also TAUGHT in both countries.

Back to the whole Canada and America debacle. Generally I agree with you that at some level there's no point reporting on a story on Canadian politics in America. The media in America is focuses mainly on America, World Events, Politics, and of course any disaster, famine, or natural disaster. It's an interesting perspective to learn about other countries and cultures more so than just knowing basic woes the country faces. As far as journalism goes I have yet to see an American company that 'digs deeper' then a program on CBC such as 'The Fifth Estate' or CTV's 'W5'. Even CBC's long format stories are untouchable in my mind.

Do I think the average person in Canada has access to a greater and broader perspective than most Americans? Hells yes. Do I think this stops the average American from finding another medium to inform themselves? Not at all. As far as Americans go they have to tougher and more critical on the news they digest. They actually attain a better eye for credible journalism, because from the responses I've been listening to, Americans think main stream media is shit. They're forced to find good solid information. Us on the other hand are lazy and rely on the fact that CBC as well as many other news organizations will keep putting out a high level of quality when reporting on the news. The standards in newsrooms are cut-throat, you don't get second chances. Don't fuck up or we will find someone else to replace you, clear and simple. I'm not sure what type of standards American stations are using but the slip-ups from CNN, MSNBC, and more so than others FOX is fucking outrageous. That shit would not fly here, and it doesn't.

I figure I should clear this up now. I've never had any problems with you, and the last thing I want to do is insult your province. I was only making a point about the spectrum of Ontario's weight in Canada, none which needs reminding. I cherish the fact that I live in this country and that regardless what others know or don't know about it, it is a really great place to live. I'd be happy living in Ontario just as much as I would be living in Newfoundland. We are Canadian, through and through. I'm hard headed, I know that. I think Canadians are no more or less informed than Americans. I think the level of journalist quality is higher in Canada, that's all.

[Material Girl]

Love, Actually

Actually, the American media is a lot more independent from their government than the Canadian media.

[genocidal]

Do I think the average person in Canada has access to a greater and broader perspective than most Americans? Hells yes.

Haha goddamn kidding me? Just because your government's media outlet pushes a liberal-leaning agenda doesn't mean you have a broader perspective - it just means you're up your own ass a lot more.

[Kolar]

Actually, the American media is a lot more independent from their government than the Canadian media.

For Government funded media I think both the CBC and PBS both do a really good job in reporting and investigative pieces as well as remaining independent and unbiased towards the both Governments. PBS' NOW program is well put together. I was going to mention it in the other thread about the automotive bailout but the "NOW: Blue Print America Driven To Despair" program covers the issue of lacking mass transit in southern California well.

Canadians are exposed to the same media Americans are, it just depends if you're looking for Canadian specific or world news. More likely if you want to hear about something going on in BC you're gonna turn on CTV, CBC, Global ect.. and not CNN or BBC. It is an overstatement to say that Canadians are more informed then their counter parts to the south. But I don't think it is an overstatement to say that American media has some problems and tends to cause a few of them.

[froedrick]

Do I think the average person in Canada has access to a greater and broader perspective than most Americans? Hells yes.

I wasn't offended at all Cops don't worry! But this is what I was trying to get at the whole time. I'm afraid right there we're going to have to disagree to our cores. I don't think this can be a judgment solely on what you've seen. My best friend (Ksharpe if anyone remembers him) is doing his degree in journalism right now and he talks to me about everything that he does etc. But that has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not Canadians are more informed than Americans. In fact I think this has less to do with how we perceive Canadians and more with how Americans are perceived. You're giving lots of credit to Canadians saying that number one they watch the news and care and number two that our media trumps the American media by far. Well I personally watch the BBC and not CBC (except for HNIC). I feel that keeps me much more informed than the CBC. Does that mean it's true? Who knows. Does that mean that lots of average Americans don't watch BBC programming? Who knows. Listen all I'm saying is, that by my experience and giving the benefit of the doubt, most Americans are not stupid and are not so self absorbed as people would have you believe. Many Americans do have a clue about Canada and keep themselves informed about Canada, and to say that Canadians obviously know more because our media is better and we care more seems to be a bit like tooting our own horn.