Expelled - The Movie

[DankNuggets]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

my point was that you can't just lump people into existing categories all the time.

It may appear that my beliefs fall in line with Deism (or any others) but that doesn't mean I've adapted that philosophy as my own. They just happen to have some things in common.

[Pearl Jam]

Here here, Admiral Syphillis.

PS - What it is, my man?

It is what it is, Concles. Living the dream. Doing the dew.

How are those 25 below zero record-breaking temperatures and snow that doesn't ever, EVER go away?

[Kolar]

All of the possibilities you mentioned are ones that are not the current scientific dogma, but they are possibilites as far as i'm concerned. Personally I guess I believe your deus ex machina theory, where god set the world in motion, and then that's it. Didn't create life, created the possibility of life, or simply the universe. My explaination isn't debunked by any current scientific theory, yet it includes god.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

[DankNuggets]

avoiding double/triple posting; bare/bear(?) with me

Creationism and evolution aren't mutually exclusive so long as you accept that the species that currently exist on earth came from common ancestors that were different, going back to a universal common ancestor of all life on earth. However, where that first organism came from, evolution does not address. Then you're dealing with the theory of abiogenesis (life from non-life). You could even accept abiogenesis, and claim that God created the universe with certain laws, and the universe follows those laws (deus ex machina). Possibly even that those laws were designed to eventually allow abiogenesis and the evolution of humans.

Exactly. This debate always turns ugly because there's so many sides to it.

It's almost impossible to argue against many of the "theological" ideas since they are so varied. Science only excepts one answer, even if it changes from time to time.

This is why it's a hell of a lot easier to be on the side of science: you don't have to deal with people's interpretations and misconceptions of your own beliefs, because they are written out as a scientific theory.

Most people (who can come up with an original thought) have their own ideas on religion. Very few people (that i've come across) have identical theories on our origin from a religious standpoint (barring the people who believe every line of the bible). It's hard to even get started in these debates, when "your side" is being picked for you, and it's not the one you agree with.

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All of the possibilities you mentioned are ones that are not the current scientific dogma, but they are possibilites as far as i'm concerned. Personally I guess I believe your deus ex machina theory, where god set the world in motion, and then that's it. Didn't create life, created the possibility of life, or simply the universe. My explaination isn't debunked by any current scientific theory, yet it includes god.

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See, creationists have plenty of room to work with (the realms that science does not or cannot address), but for some reason they fixate on denying the most obvious facts. Maybe it's just a lack of imagination on their part.

so where do i fit in, since I don't fixate on denying any scientific facts? I'm more than willing to argue any anti-evolutionist into the ground. Ex's:

1- No record of human ape intermediates --- can be explained by some of the following:

1A- humans didn't conquer the globe until modern eras, as new research is starting to uncover. At first, scientists thought that NA was inhabited by crossing a landbridge, but now they think it could have been seafaring asians much later. this is to say that even humans (who now cover the globe) weren't always the best at adapting, and were probably confined to small locations at first, much like today's apes.
1B- intermediates, which aren't around today because they weren't the best at surviving, probably didn't inhabit a very large range, thus making fossils even harder to find. That, and the fact that conditions aren't great for creating fossils 99% of the time, lead to what is most likely very few viable locations to find humanoid fossils. Most likely, we just haven't found them yet. It's not like we dig 100 ft down on every square foot of the earth.
1C- intermediates could have been very similar to humans/apes, so what little fossils that did take would appear to be either apes or humans, depending on the age and variation of the specimens.

2-the extinction of the dinosaurs--

2A- I don't know about your elementary and middle schools, but even mine, located in one of the most backwards educational systems in the US (south carolina, look up "corridor of shame"), we were taught that there are a number of prevailing theories on the massive extinction. We were NOT told that an asteroid was the reason. In fact, the volcano theory you mentioned was one of about 5-7 in our text books. That and disease, plant evolution, climate change, and many others.

By definiton, speciation implies that two distinct (and therefore evolved) species cannot reproduce viable offspring. So STFU about the "evolution" of seperate races/ethnicities, or even breeds of dogs (which are the SAME species, not evovled what-so-ever).

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BTW, what's outside of the universe? What contains the universe? If it's expanding: What would it be like on the theoritical edge of the universe? or the center?

These are questions that God will never give you an answer to. If you're at all curious as to the answers, you're going to have to find them out yourself or just wait til you can ask the big guy. That's the point of science to figures stuff out. you don't always have to do this by eliminating all other possibilities first (ie, completely discrediting scientists who make a place for god, or saying the two don't, and cannot mix).

[TagMor]

I mean have you "Christians who believe their morality comes from Christianity" even read the bible? There's a lot of stoning to death and rape.

So.. you have read the bible and just choose to take passages completely out of context?

Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, it is thoroughly outlined there. HEY a religious text that even less Christians/Catholics read

Catholics do not represent Christianity as a whole.. the fact you dont know the difference suggests you dont have a clue what you are talking about and should just stfu.

And you people claim Christians are the ignorant ones..

[Summa]

I feel bad for helping derail this thread... but will someone please define Christian morality.

Read the Catechism of the Catholic Church, it is thoroughly outlined there. HEY a religious text that even less Christians/Catholics read!!!! Yay!!!!! Unfortunately I had to read a significant portion of it a few years back.

[kthx]

Then God instructed the people as follows: “I am the Lord your God, who rescued you from slavery in Egypt.



1.

Do not worship any other gods besides me.


2.

Do not make idols of any kind, whether in the shape of birds or animals or fish. You must never worship or bow down to them, for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God who will not share your affection with any other god! I do not leave unpunished the sins of those who hate me, but I punish the children for the sins of their parents to the third and fourth generations. But I lavish my love on those who love me and obey my commands, even for a thousand generations.

3.

Do not misuse the name of the Lord your God. The Lord will not let you go unpunished if you misuse his name.


4.

Remember to observe the Sabbath day by keeping it holy. Six days a week are set apart for your daily duties and regular work, but the seventh day is a day of rest dedicated to the Lord your God. On that day no one in your household may do any kind of work. This includes you, your sons and daughters, your male and female servants, your livestock, and any foreigners living among you. For in six days the Lord made the heavens, the earth, the sea, and everything in them; then he rested on the seventh day. That is why the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and set it apart as holy.

5.

Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee.


6.

Do not murder.


7.

Do not commit adultery.


8.

Do not steal.

9.

Do not testify falsely against your neighbor.

10.

Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour’s.

`````````````

Pretty sure that these are all either still laws or social rules that we follow.

[Downfall]

World Ends In 2012!

[Louis XV]

I feel bad for helping derail this thread... but will someone please define Christian morality. I mean have you "Christians who believe their morality comes from Christianity" even read the bible? There's a lot of stoning to death and rape. Since you pick and choose the parts of the Judeo-Christian code that are most convenient (and add others such as "slavery is wrong"), is it still correct to call your morality Christian?

IMO morality comes from societal norms/requirements. You avoid stealing and killing not because you're afraid of the sky daddy, but because civilization would collapse if everyone did these things. The golden rule predates Judaism/Christianity. Even apes respect social hierarchy and avoid loss of life when possible in their conflicts. Some would even say that last bit makes them more 'moral' than us...

I posit that your morality comes from a) your parents/family, b) everyone around you, c) a sense of fairness, and later on, d) knowledge that your quality of life is tied to adherence to certain values. Those of us with a non-religious upbringing can attest to that. But keep calling it Christian morality if you must. Please don't take this as an attack on Christians, I'm just trying to refute the idea that religion is necessary for morality.

Anyway, back on topic.

Creationism and evolution aren't mutually exclusive so long as you accept that the species that currently exist on earth came from common ancestors that were different, going back to a universal common ancestor of all life on earth. However, where that first organism came from, evolution does not address. Then you're dealing with the theory of abiogenesis (life from non-life). You could even accept abiogenesis, and claim that God created the universe with certain laws, and the universe follows those laws (deus ex machina). Possibly even that those laws were designed to eventually allow abiogenesis and the evolution of humans. See, creationists have plenty of room to work with (the realms that science does not or cannot address), but for some reason they fixate on denying the most obvious facts. Maybe it's just a lack of imagination on their part.

[PaulOakenfold]

I'm not christian (nor religious for that matter), but I'm hoping for that end times thing.

I'm praying for an apocalypse.

B-bu-but! Butt B)
You have too much to live for. Probably more than you realize.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

I'm not a Christian really, but I endorse this message.

Here here, Admiral Syphillis.

PS - What it is, my man?

[gran guerrero]

I'm not christian (nor religious for that matter), but I'm hoping for that end times thing.

I'm praying for an apocalypse.

[Pearl Jam]

I'm Christian, but regardless of what my children decide to believe in when they're old enough, they will learn and most likely follow Christian morality one way or another. They don't have to have faith to believe in the Christian principals that will make their life and those around them better.

Some of the most giving and humble people I've met have been agnostic. I for one believe there's a greater cause, but I don't take what they do away from them, nor those that are individualistic people with absolutely no faith. Love thy neighbor as He loves you.

I'm not a Christian really, but I endorse this message.

[Squeezer]

You do something wrong and you go to jail, if you wrong in life and you go to hell. I would agree with you, but even Jail takes its whole concept from religion as far as punishing what we consider evil by placing them somewhere that isn't where they want to be to make them suffer and repent. But anyways we could go on forever about how religion is pretty much the basis for the penal system so I won't argue that point anymore. Anyways, there has ALWAYS been a deity whether you believe in cavemen who I am sure thought the sun was some sort of god, to the present day where there are many different religions who all have similar beliefs along the lines of the Judao-Christian religion to define morality towards your common man. So whether you believe that God was really here at the first dawn of man with Adam and Eve and what became of the people during the flood with only the righteous being spared, or whether you believe that if you didn't revere the sun as a god you would be burned forever there has always been some code of conduct based on religion.

I think we agree on the point of religion having it's hands in just about every sphere of the world. I'm with you on that. However, as life modernized and free time to read and worship began to dwindle, people gradually moved away from religion.

What I'm saying is that in modern America, I believe the law, the media, peers, etc. have more of an influence on morality than Captain skygod and his wondrous book. The roots of why we behave in terms of "morality" may be tied to these beliefs, but they are not the same beliefs. They're pidgin versions, augmented where necessary and released to the population covertly through different forms of media. That, I believe, has more power than religion, or God ever could.

Seriously, think about how many systems are in place to denounce the unconventional.

[paradise!]

That's the whole point of intelligent design - it's not "wrong" or "right." You either believe there is an "intelligent designer" or you don't. That's why it has nothing to do with science. That's why scientists think it's retarded.

LOL?