WTF Japan? Epic thread of problems

[PaulOakenfold]

Mandarin is a very elegant language actually. Spoken mandarin is quite easy to pronounce (foreigners can usually learn it quite easily), and is very easy to say. Grammar in Chinese is pretty simple, and there is nothing like tenses to worry about or conjugation. Everything is contextual, including gender of people. Once you grasp the concept of it, it's very easy.

The number system is also pretty easy to use like English. I always loved the stupidity of French, where 96 is 'four-twenty sixteen'.

It's the writing which is very hard. The Communist Party of China actually created a 'simplified Chinese' (not used in Hong Kong or Taiwan) which is easier to write and easier to learn. As well there are systems to use english letters and various accents to accurately write any Chinese word (thus you had cities like 'Peking' being changed to the completely correct Chinese pronunciation of 'Beijing').

Cool stuff. What do you think of CTN? I want to learn a new language, obviously Spanish is next (with German, French, English and some Russian), but I'm deciding between CTN and MNDRN. Which is easier? Obviously MNDRN is more widely used, but I'm not looking for a profitable objective exactly.

[Epinephrine]

CTN = Cantonese?

I'm a native Cantonese speaker and personally I think you'd be wasting your time. It's good if you want to watch Hong Kong movies, but even in Hong Kong people speak English well enough for you to get by. Cantonese is also extremely hard for foreigners to pronounce correctly, and is a pretty ugly sounding language overall, Mandarin is MUCH nicer.

The writing systems meanwhile for both are EXACTLY the same as are all the words. If you must think about it, I guess the best example would be say... American English vs. whatever those guys spoke in the Full Monty (welsh?) which was supposedly English.

[PaulOakenfold]

CTN = Cantonese?

Yes, of course!

The writing systems meanwhile for both are EXACTLY the same as are all the words. If you must think about it, I guess the best example would be say... American English vs. whatever those guys spoke in the Full Monty (welsh?) which was supposedly English

Hahaha. Monty Python really make fun of their foreign land in every way much like SNL makes fun of America's politics, even if it comes to accents and languages. I'm not gonna turn this into an American thread, I know NBC is slightly left, but they still try their best to make fun of American media and politics. Check out our fake Southern Accents on some skits if you want to hear something worse than terribly mimicked Welsh.

[Epinephrine]

The Fully Monty is NOT Monty Python

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119164/

[PaulOakenfold]

The Fully Monty is NOT Monty Python

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0119164/

Haha fuck, my bad! It's Saturday night, give me a break

[Izor]

If you were a serious debating person, i.e. not contracting yourself over multiple posts, or obviously trolling, I'd waste some time to find some evidence.

Outside of my first post where I was clearly making light of their problems I havent contradicted myself

[PaulOakenfold]

Outside of my first post where I was clearly making light of their problems I havent contradicted myself

Contradicting with a contradictary post! Congrats, not the first or 1 millionth in history though. I have to ask though are you experience peripheral neuropathy and spastic reflexes. This seems to throw a curve in diagnosis. What about other symptoms like gait ataxia, bilateral Menieres disease, Hoffmans sign, dizziness, falls (several requiring er visits for broken bones), borderline diabetes, cognitive problems and slight brain atrophy of unkown significance?

[Vihta]

I hear it's the worst next to Finnish or Icelandic although "OMG MANDARIN HAS LIKE A MILLION LETTERS TO LEARN."

Actually Finnish is pretty average language on most accounts. Just different from what you are used to One thing we have a lot is "cases" (?), for example

tiede = science
tieteen
tiedettä
tieteenä
tieteeksi
tieteessä
tieteestä
tieteeseen
tieteellä
tieteeltä
tieteelle
tieteettä
tieteineen
tietein

I cba to make example lines of them to translate. Constructing new words is easy and basically you can make infinitely long words in Finnish using suffixes (not that they mean anything sensible anymore thou). Somewhere it was said that this is the longest word that has been in use (I guess it's too long for the forum because it adds a space there )

lentokonesuihkuturbiinimoottoriapumekaanikkoaliups eerioppilas

Pronouncingwise Finnish has to be one of the easiest languages in the world. Basically it's just read as it's written. Although I suppose it's hard to pickup for english speakers because of double (long) vowels and consonants and maybe some other things.

If you are interested in languages, goto http://wals.info/

Oh yeah, japs are crazy

[Salubrious]

I love how everyone here has opinions on Japan that sound like they come from observing Harold from Harold and Kuumar more than any proof or evidence. You can't learn how Japan's social structure is from Wikipedia.

But it's perfectly acceptable to use Izor's only source of numerical evidence from that same site.

Come to think of it, aside from Izor's very enlightening youtube link, all your "sources" have come from Wiki.

Do either of you even READ what it is you're posting?

[Zerzera]

Do either of you even READ what it is you're posting?

That's trolling. You just randomly throw in a link to a 'credible' article (one you would never understand yourself) so that people who take you seriously will actually read or skip through the entire article, thinking it will make some point. You just spend 30 seconds finding an appropriate link, they will spend minutes maybe quarters of hours reading it.

You shouldn't expect people like Izor or Kthx to make any sensible correlation or bring forth a well through thought argument. If you want to discuss the topic at hand, you are best off ignoring them.

[Izor]

LOL i used wikipedia to back up what I was saying with its chart that I had already figured out, not to 'read the article cause I dont know whats going on here' like half the forums did in the creationism threads. Theres a big difference at linking a chart and linking a full article saying 'here you go read that then talk to me' I suppose I could have linked the chart better, as the rest of that article I doubt was relevant to the conversation at hand.

The fact still remains that no one has provided any sort of factual evidence to prove me wrong. This is all still speculation that people's 'honor' forces them to work off the clock, even though no one here has witnessed first hand this happening. Instead you're trying to put me in a situation where 'I cant prove its not happening so it must be' - aka the same argument you hate when creationists say you cant prove there isnt a god so it must exist. I dont think any reasonable person would take looking at TV shows and 'I studied their culture in college' as legitimate proof lol. Nor do I think they would take 'I visited Japan a handful of times for a couple weeks'

[RednaZ]

Seems the thread has strayed from the work hours/ethics in japan by now but I just managed to find a very insightful novella that deals exactly with the position of the salaryman in japan. It's hilarious and depressing at the same time, definately recommend it (and I don't really read literary books normally).

Fear and Trembling, by Amélie Nothomb

[Izor]

In fact since its late and I had nothing better to do I decided to look up this to see both sides of the story and found some random ass site that said:

http://www.jobsinjapan.com/book/japanese.html

"A company that officially finishes at 5:15 p.m. might only allow employees to fill out overtime sheets from 6:00 p.m., the official starting time for overtime. There may also be a rule that only a maximum of 20 hours overtime a month can be claimed. Anything over that is not authorized, but it is very common for people to work until 8:00 or 9:00 p.m. every day and put in 50 hours of overtime a month or even more. These Japanese employees are paid for only 20 hours based on a low base pay (bonuses and housing allowance excluded).

One Japanese manager told me how during the peak of the bubble he had been very busy with several projects and had worked 2,000 hours of overtime in one year (in addition to the standard 1,800 hours of normal work). That meant he was literally working 16 plus hours a day for an entire year. I told him he was crazy, and he replied, "Yes, I was crazy... I was very crazy.""

" Furthermore, do not get caught up in any illusion that you will have a future with the Japanese firm, particularly when it comes to working overtime. One of the biggest misconceptions I have seen in several books that talk about working in a Japanese company is this notion that you will be expected to work long hours of overtime just like everyone else. That's bunk!"

"This is another illusion that many people have, i.e., that you have to work overtime. All workers in Japan, both Japanese and foreigners, have an employment contract or guidelines for their employment. Nearly without exception, a seven- to eight-hour work day will be specified. To "force" people to do anything more is illegal, some professions like nursing or fire fighting excepted. Of course, many self-proclaimed "Japan experts" will say contracts do not mean anything in Japan, and you should not create trouble by referring to them. That is a pertinent point to some extent, but do not ever be afraid to pull out your contract and ask to discuss the overtime clause. It is not going to affect your chances for promotion."

What I gather from this article (you can gather what you will) is that Japan's overtime regulations are more or less the same as ours. It hurts the companies to have them pay employees overtime, and as a result they shouldnt authorize it much. If you want to say the companies 'force' people to stay there and work off the clock, thats on the workers. Hell I'm not really in that different of a situation then. I get paid salary, but I'm expected to work a standard 40 hour week. If I was really busy, I'd have to stay late and work on shit to get it done. I wouldnt be getting paid overtime, I'd just be sitting there working...does that make me Japanese now?

[Salubrious]

What a coincidence, giant blue font on a purple cherry blossom background is how I plan to write my senior thesis.

[Izor]

Opinionated articles are all youre probably going to find on this. How can anyone factually prove what goes on there?