Going Dutch

[kthx]

I wasn't trying to make you feel anything because I couldn't care less what you think about well.. anything. And how is me spewing right wing rhetoric any worse than you spewing left wing rhetoric? Perhaps you should have spent more time taking correspondence classes if you are truly this ignorant.

[Cops]

So I should feel like a dick cause you dropped out because someone died? Nah, I dropped out too for serious life issues so don't even try to use that as an excuse. I had to do summer school, online classes, part time classes, and even correspondent classes to just get my fucking high school diploma. What might be a good idea for you to do is invest some time in actually studying and learning about the things you seem to be interested in, I mean that is if you're getting sick of regurgitating right wing rhetoric.

I think you need to open your mind to new ideas and theories, or just stop being that guy who has a limited perspective on the world, yet he's the first one to tell everyone how their government is wrong.

[Money]

I have been in the US for like 5 months now.

oh what, i thought u were in Canada

DA FUK?

[kthx]

Yeah that is because we live in AMERICA, we like cars, we like to drive, we like wasting gas. That is why your elite police officers in canada still ride horses.

[Epinephrine]

I don't know if you are right about the car thing Epi. In 2007 we had 7.2 million registered private cars, so that is excluding all of the trucks and other business vehicles. On a country with a population of 16 million. That is a hell of a lot (basically the Netherlands is one big traffic jam during rush hours and it is only getting worse). Also, the prices of cars in the Netherlands tend to be higher than here in the US, because as far as I understand it, there is no standard that cars in the US have to abide to, but there are in the Netherlands (at least that is what I heard from people owning cars here).

250,851,833 estimated registered cars in the USA in 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Passeng..._United_States) for roughly 300 million people.

As well American cars are much bigger, much less fuel efficient, and Americans commute much further on average than Europeans.

[kthx]

So to add on to this conversation you are trying to tell me that what America could learn from Finland about real luxury is how to become the fucking Amish? Are you serious...

[Kuukunen]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/csm/20090501/cm_csm/ycorson

[Galleleo]

As soon as he steps foot on U.S soil im sure he will tell you.

I have been in the US for like 5 months now.

[kthx]

Because it is like double paying, you pay extra in taxes to get the socialized health care and then you end up putting even more of your money up front to go to a better doctor (or the privatized doctor). So basically if your terrible public doctor can't fix you, or the public doctor can't schedule you for a visit for six months, or you are deemed not worth fixing for being too old or too sick then you have to shell out money to get the kind of service that we get in America without having to pay another 5-10% in taxes for.

Oh and btw Cops you are right, I did drop out of high school because of a death in my family, but getting a diploma from a high school in America doesn't really mean much at all, our education is garbage unless you go to a private school or a good college.

[Money]

Has kthx never heard of the private sector?

There are fantastic doctors in Europe too, some are in the social sector, others in the private sector.

I.e. my orthopedic surgeon has operated on a certain US track and field olympic gold winner.

meh, our doctors are better.

[Cops]

After countless threads on health care I know the following;

Don't presume Kthx knows anything, he'll be lucky if he can get himself a high school education.

And secondly, the private sector still exists in places where there they offer public services. I don't know what it is about this issue that makes people put on their stupid hats.

[Displaced]

Has kthx never heard of the private sector?

There are fantastic doctors in Europe too, some are in the social sector, others in the private sector.

I.e. my orthopedic surgeon has operated on a certain US track and field olympic gold winner.

[Money]

lol @ butthurt americans.


Privatisation leads to greed and corruption. Look at the situation of U.S health insurance, it is a joke. Another example would be liability auto insurance.
Americans pay taxes for emergency services, waste management, road maintenance, etc. And the result is efficient and public-orientated service. They have privatised healthcare/education and the results are severily broken systems that are profit-orientated and have a reduced capability of serving the citizens.
Despite Kthx's dramatic cries of communism and social oppression, most western countries have a system of Socialism that merily safeguards the people from corruption and manipulation of these core social services.

lol tagmor using big words he copy and pasted, come on dude we all know NZ school arent capable of teaching those words, more focused on sheep fucking techniques

[Money]

What have your thoughts been on living in America, Galleleo?

As soon as he steps foot on U.S soil im sure he will tell you.

[Noah]

It's all a matter of optics. The article is absolutely correct when it says that in the end, the tax burden is around the same once you add in all fees and incidentals. Furthermore, there's unseen fees like for instance Americans lose a large percentage of their income for healthcare, a percentage that everyone else pays with taxes.

Furthermore, there's intrinsic differences in the geography and makeup of America and the Netherlands that can't be ignored.

The Netherlands is an extremely densely populated country (few places in the world are as densely populated) and as such by default spends a LOT less money on infrastructure than the USA even if you take into the account of all their dams. Think of all the highways in the middle of nowhere in the USA and how much that must cost to maintain (remember Europe has many more people than the USA in a far smaller area).

Secondly in terms of similar expenditures, they spend a hell of a lot less money on their military, and as a percentage a lot less on healthcare as everyone else does relative to the USA.

Thirdly, due to the makeup of the country, even individual priorities will be different. Americans may have more money, but they likely spend much more money on transportation than the Dutch. It's impossible to get around in most places in North America without a car, but pretty easy to get around the Netherlands without one. As such, the car is actually not that important (as in most other super dense places like in Asia) and all that 'extra' money that Americans have to spend on buying/maintaining/gassing up/paying insurance on their cars is money that can be used for other priorities.

For sure, overall the Dutch do pay more taxes in the end, but it's also about priorities in life. Since the Dutch do have inherent efficient benefits in being in a small densely populated country, and since they CHOOSE not to spend so much on their military or nearly as much on healthcare, and since many of them don't NEED cars, all those resources are redirected.

They believe in collective good. Americans believe in individual good. Which is actually better? Hard to say, it's two different systems, and I'm sure most people living in both countries are pretty happy with their own systems. It is just a different way of life, and neither is more legitimate than the other in my opinion.

Epi hit the nail flawlessly on the head here. 100% agreed.