Kennedy Health Care Reform Bill.

[Epinephrine]

Because if walk-in clinics were free too, most people with minor ailments will go there instead, leaving only people who really need the higher level of care to go to the ER. Actually that's what happens in Canada. And paying walk-in clinics is vastly cheaper than paying to run a hospital. Having worked at 7 different emergency departments I can tell you this is true with only a few exceptions of the random person that comes in after-hours and can't find a walk-in clinic.

Whatever it costs to pay your deductible to see a doctor (what like $5-20 with a good health plan?) is negligible compared to the lost opportunity cost of not going to work, driving to the hospital, paying for parking, etc. not to mention the pure hassle of it all. Only 5 year olds believe that the $5 cost is actually what's stopping their parents from taking them to the doctor for bullshit complaints.

And yes, you don't wait weeks for appendicitis, you get it done the same day or else you can die.

[Izor]

You obviously dont know my parents, who only got cable this decade, cell phones 2 years ago, and my dad has had 2 ford escorts my entire life. Yes, the deductible was what stopped us from going on top of the fact that it was bullshit, but even when it really WASNT bullshit but I didnt have a serious ailment

[genocidal]

Too bad you didn't get appendicitis as a kid then.

[Epinephrine]

Izor if your parents were dumb enough to think that the $5 deductible was more of an incentive NOT to go to the doctor than missing work (aka NOT GETTING PAID THAT DAY FOR SKIPPING WORK/using a valuable sick day that could be used for a real problem later), paying for gas/parking, the frustration of waiting all day to see a doctor for a bullshit problem, then that's their problem.

Most people would be more swayed by all the other reasons not to go to the doctor for bullshit reasons, then some $5 deductible. And for that reason your entire argument falls apart, because even if there wasn't that $5 deductible there's more than enough reason to not go to the doctor that most people wouldn't go and thus it wouldn't really matter overall to the system.

[Lock]

Kthx do you honestly think that the healthcare system is perfect and deosnt need reform?

I had a friend who got in a car accident and air vac was called even though he refused the air vac and wanted to take an ambulance. He was then charged 15k by the hospital. Sounds like a great system. I highly doubt a helicopter ride for 3 miles costs 15 thousand dollars.

[kthx]

If he refused Air-Vac then he probably wasn't very badly injured, sounds pretty fucking stupid to me. The guy should have hiked to the hospital, or just driven.
And who the fuck cares about Kennedy, personally I put him on the same level as Micheal Jackson, good riddance to that criminal fuck.

http://www.examiner.com/x-1168-Crime...ncident-part-1

Maybe you guys forgot about that little tidbit, maybe he can apologize to her in hell. Show some respect for what, a murderer when he dies, in Texas we save them the trouble of getting Cancer and just give them the lethal injection. I just love how they try to make a martyr out of this murdering fuck.

[kthx]

Oh and I meant to quote summas stupid liberal ass there.

[kthx]

On another note, I won't cry when O.J. Simpson dies either because he was good football player, and I didn't cry when Micheal Jackson died either because he was a good singer.

[Cops]

advil milkshakes

[paradise!]

Kthx do you honestly think that the healthcare system is perfect and deosnt need reform?

I had a friend who got in a car accident and air vac was called even though he refused the air vac and wanted to take an ambulance. He was then charged 15k by the hospital. Sounds like a great system. I highly doubt a helicopter ride for 3 miles costs 15 thousand dollars.

There are too many stories like these. My neighbor got her cut (around 1.5 inches long) disinfected and sewed up at a nearby hospital which took around an hour to complete. They got the bill and it cost 6 thousand. The disinfectant was around 2,000, so they claim. Ridiculous shit. Imagine if you had any kind of serious disease, you're fucked. Too many bankruptcy stories because of the cost of treatment for diseases.

It needs reform. Anyone who says it doesn't has problems. Who cares if the liberals are passing it? Limbaugh has to say things to antagonize the liberals for his audiences insatiable needs. In other words, he argues for the sake of arguing. His radio show is rendered pointless if there is no conflict.

Anybody listening to Rush Limbaugh, and even those on the left like Ed Schulz should listen to it for pure ENTERTAINMENT. I don't go around collecting information directly from Rachel Maddow and spewing it here. I watch her show to hear her commentary on a few issues, and to listen to the experts she brings in. In no way is she forming my way of thinking.

Stop letting radicals on either side form your beliefs.

[Squeezer]

i agree with para what the fuck

?

[kthx]

I think you are missing the point that it was perfectly predicted, not that he said it to start shit. And people should stop being pussies, who the fuck goes to the doctor for an inch and half scratch.

[Vatican Assassin]

Kthx is right; now is no time for getting sentimental for people who like to drive drunk, run over and kill women, and lie about it to cover it up. Yes, Kennedy did that, and if anyone else did it except a media darling we would all be irate about it. More importantly, this health care reform will further cripple our country. Currently, 1/3 of all the taxes America collects already go to Medicaid and Medicare. Let me clarify what this means. When social security, medicaid, and medicare came into being they were designed to be a way to collect more taxes in the present, and eventually give it out to retirees thirty years in the future. Well, it worked. Thirty years have passed and we are facing the consequences. USA got a lot of economic growth from the added revenue these programs created, but it didn't take long for the money collected to become dwarfed by the money spent with the help of a larger, less efficient, and more corrupt government/insurance partnership behind it.

Presently, not a single dollar is being saved from the taxes collected through these programs, and far from it. Right now we are paying roughly 1/3 of ALL TAX REVENUE directly to the millions of people who expect to get more monitary value then what they added to the system from 30+ years of socual security and medicare. Quite simply, if you attempt to extend any kind of socialized health care, then that means you are making the government pay for a service that people have payed for privately until they reach a certain age. How will the government pay for it? 1/3 of our taxes already go to the seniors health care, how will you pay for everyone else, including people who do not pay their share of taxes (immigrants who usually get paid under the table in cash because they cannot afford to pay taxes or receive green cards). Have you noticed anything about the current state of USA's treasury? It is very, very far in the red, add another 1.7 trillion to it BEFORE HEALTH CARE REFORM for just this year, thanks Obama.

Remember the presidential debates last year, when there was a very important question posed to McCain and Obama which they both failed to address at all? They were each asked--three times because they so pointedly avoided the question altogether--what programs they would not be able to create as future presidents because of the $700 billion being spent on the bank bail-outs. Obama and McCain each said that not only would they not reduce spending because of the bail-outs, they would each in fact INCREASE spending in order to STIMULATE the economy. Well folks, some times politics is simple enough for a young child to understand. You cannot continue to borrow and print money without facing consequences. The fact is, subsidizing health care may seem to be a kind thing to do to the needy, but if your country is in financial ruin, it is not the best time to start asking the government to pick up the bill.

And one more thing. If you subsize anything, including health care, they can charge as much as they want because you do not see the cost directly, the government does. In essence, you can start charging 15000 for a helictopter ride and 2000 for disinfectant because huge insurance companies are working with corrupt senators to bleed the government's coffers for their own financial gain. If we had a completely free-market health care system, there would be a riot because no one could afford such a bloated system. As it happens now, we are still paying for such a system, but it comes out of our taxes so we do not understand the real cost, we just see the occasional news report telling us our national debt is 10 trillion and we owe china 10 trillion and oh no's we gots to start selling ports and highways and military bases but who cares let's concentrate on health reform while the prioce of a hamburger goes to 20$ because we need to print a bunch of money for something we can obviously not afford.

[kthx]

Don't forget shutting down cities entire governments for weeks throughout the year and also giving IOU's instead of payments while requesting the government cough up more money for stupid shit. Houston isn't shutting down, sooner or later you all are going to have to wake up and realize that your liberal ideas of running a country don't work, look at most of the liberal cities, unemployment rates are skyhigh, they city can't even afford to run, all because all of their professional population and successful businesses have fled town because of ridiculously high taxes. Instead they move to cities with lower tax rates, fewer regulations on their companies, and are less likely to raise taxes and create more expensive regulations, IE conservative cities/states. All these liberal cities with who try to tax everyone out the ass are just forcing their best residents to go to greener pastures while the people who poor are left behind, which basically means there are no tax dollar and jobs from the rich and wealthy business owners to pay for the welfare of the poor and lazy. So these towns are left with no jobs, no way to raise taxes, and no money to spend on anything, including getting businesses back.

It isn't that hard of a concept to grasp and no matter how die hard liberal you morons are you can't deny the absolute facts that states like Michigan and some other northern states are falling a part in the hands of tax the fuck out of the people who create jobs and spend money liberal governors.

[Squeezer]

Kthx is right; now is no time for getting sentimental for people who like to drive drunk, run over and kill women, and lie about it to cover it up. Yes, Kennedy did that, and if anyone else did it except a media darling we would all be irate about it.

First off, he didn't run over Mary Jo Kopechne, he drove the car into a lake and saved himself. Still a douchebag move, but get your facts straight. People were pretty irate about it at the time, but it's been 40 years...It's in the past, like W's coke habit and the fact that Laura Bush killed a girl while driving. The accident still killed any chance he had at running for president. That's about as damaging a blow as he could have received considering he was pretty popular following his brothers' deaths.

More importantly, this health care reform will further cripple our country. Currently, 1/3 of all the taxes America collects already go to Medicaid and Medicare.

Private health care is already crippling our country (no pun intended) with consistently raised costs and lower rates of care. Do you understand that our system of health care is abysmal compared to the rest of the industrialized world? According to the WHO, we have the 37th best level of care despite spending more on health insurance and procedures than any other country in the world. We have worse care than Cyprus, Colombia, and fucking Chile. On top of that, more bankruptcies in this country are caused by health care than any other means.

And it's only 20%, not 1/3. Again, not a huge difference, but get your facts straight.

Let me clarify what this means.

Please do.

When social security, medicaid, and medicare came into being they were designed to be a way to collect more taxes in the present, and eventually give it out to retirees thirty years in the future. Well, it worked. Thirty years have passed and we are facing the consequences.

Thirty years? You are aware that SS was implemented by FDR under the Social Security act of 1935 right? It was originally started to get people to reinvest in the govt. during the Great Depression. Medicare and Medicaid were signed by LBJ over 40 years ago as part of his sweeping legislation to create the "Great Society." So what if they were used as a way to collect taxes, they paid out what they promised.

USA got a lot of economic growth from the added revenue these programs created, but it didn't take long for the money collected to become dwarfed by the money spent with the help of a larger, less efficient, and more corrupt government/insurance partnership behind it.

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Really, I don't know what you're saying. Are you saying the govt. is in cahoots with the Insurance companies to provide a bigger, less efficient system of health care? That's what the Obama administration is saying. Govt. subsidies to private insurers hasn't made health care any cheaper, nor has it made it any more productive. The reform Obama is suggesting is a public option that would remove money from a persons paycheck in order to pay for health insurance they wouldn't receive otherwise. That's all. It's an option whether you choose to pay for it or not.

Presently, not a single dollar is being saved from the taxes collected through these programs, and far from it.

Do you have any evidence of this? I would say our military spending is a far bigger waste than SS and Medicaid. After all, there's nothing less profitable (to the American people) than spending billions each month to bomb brown people.

Right now we are paying roughly 1/3 of ALL TAX REVENUE directly to the millions of people who expect to get more monitary value then what they added to the system from 30+ years of socual security and medicare.

Granted this is a problem. Twenty or so years ago there were 10 people paying into SS for every one taking out. Now it's almost down to 2 people for ever one person receiving benifits. If we eliminated health care costs from regular Americans' budgets, they would have money to actually pay their taxes and we can curb the baby boomer party.

Oddly enough the people that seem opposed to the public option (old people and the poor/unemployed) stand to benefit the most from reform. But you know what they say about old people and new tricks or something...I'm sure it's some reference to coming to America.

Quite simply, if you attempt to extend any kind of socialized health care, then that means you are making the government pay for a service that people have payed for privately until they reach a certain age.

It's not socialized health care, it's insurance reform. No one will be required to take the Govt. plan and taxes for most Americans will not be affected.

Would you rather make SS privatized? In that case, what would happen if the business holding your investment goes bankrupt, or pulls a Bernie Madoff and scams your ass? Then you're out on your retirement like all those assholes that put their savings into 401k's and investment portfolios. Furthermore, plenty of Govt. run programs operate effectively and without complaint from you, I'm sure. For instance, how are your roads? Do you like the fact that it's illegal for someone to pillage your shit when you go to work? Or the fact that you can't work more than a certain amount of hours in a week for under a certain pay level?

How will the government pay for it? 1/3 of our taxes already go to the seniors health care, how will you pay for everyone else, including people who do not pay their share of taxes (immigrants who usually get paid under the table in cash because they cannot afford to pay taxes or receive green cards).

By drastically cutting Medicare/Medicaid and moving people over to the public option. All the govt. is trying to do is cut out the middle man. Instead of that money going into people's hands, then into the hands of unreliable insurance companies, the Govt. is choosing to foot the bill. In the long run it will mean money freed up to pay taxes so that we can get out of this mess of a deficit.

Have you noticed anything about the current state of USA's treasury? It is very, very far in the red, add another 1.7 trillion to it BEFORE HEALTH CARE REFORM for just this year, thanks Obama.

Yeah, I'm sure that has nothing to do with the fact that we spent the last six years pissing billions away each day on an unwinnable war. Keep in mind too that it was Bush who originally pushed the stimulus plan and bailouts through while sitting on his thumb as he watched the Federal Reserve collapse on itself.

Remember the presidential debates last year, when there was a very important question posed to McCain and Obama which they both failed to address at all?

This just in...Sometimes politicians dodge questions that might turn off possible voters. Shocking!

They were each asked--three times because they so pointedly avoided the question altogether--what programs they would not be able to create as future presidents because of the $700 billion being spent on the bank bail-outs. Obama and McCain each said that not only would they not reduce spending because of the bail-outs, they would each in fact INCREASE spending in order to STIMULATE the economy.

Well what would you have them say? Both had lofty aspirations and probably made a few promises they wouldn't (wont) keep. Spending does increase the economy. Do you know what the number one driving force behind a successful economy is? Investor and consumer confidence. If people feel safe with the economy, they'll invest and buy more. That was the point of the stimulus, though it didn't go far enough. Health Care reform will give people money to invest and spend.

If you don't believe spending can save an economy, take a look at Japan's major collapse in the early 1990s. They spent their way back to consumer confidence.

Well folks, some times politics is simple enough for a young child to understand.

You seem to be having trouble.

You cannot continue to borrow and print money without facing consequences.

Agreed, but we also can't afford to stick with the system of health care we have now. We need to pay back our debt, without a doubt, but we need a strong base of wealthy taxpayers in order to do so. There is no other way around it. Money isn't going to appear out of nowhere simply because we print it, as you indicated, and China is getting testy about their investments.

The fact is, subsidizing health care may seem to be a kind thing to do to the needy, but if your country is in financial ruin, it is not the best time to start asking the government to pick up the bill.

Fuck the moral side for a minute. Obama's plan is the most economical response at this point and time.

And one more thing. If you subsize anything, including health care, they can charge as much as they want because you do not see the cost directly, the government does.

In that situation, the private market would beat the govt. and you'd get your way anyway.

In essence, you can start charging 15000 for a helictopter ride and 2000 for disinfectant because huge insurance companies are working with corrupt senators to bleed the government's coffers for their own financial gain. If we had a completely free-market health care system, there would be a riot because no one could afford such a bloated system.

Do you have ANY evidence to support ANY of the claims in this paragraph or is this just some bullshit conspiracy theory you have? Sure, politicians and corporations scratch each others backs all the time. We're trying to sublimate that by making sure the insurance companies have to make a more efficient system in order to compete with the govt. plan (which will have 35-50 million new customers).

As it happens now, we are still paying for such a system, but it comes out of our taxes so we do not understand the real cost, we just see the occasional news report telling us our national debt is 10 trillion and we owe china 10 trillion and oh no's we gots to start selling ports and highways and military bases but who cares let's concentrate on health reform while the prioce of a hamburger goes to 20$ because we need to print a bunch of money for something we can obviously not afford.

I don't know how to respond to this either. I'm not sure where you're buying your hamburgers, but mine still cost a buck or two at McDonalds or wherever. We can afford health care if we act now.