Is all socialism bad?

[Soup du Jour]

I am often surprised at the stances some people take on these forums with regard to what I know about their character.

I agree with kthx on the notion that nature AND nurture play roles and that there are simply "better" people for every task. I also agree that society needs to be able to differentiate these people and allow them to take their own paths.

[kthx]

I mean that sounds all good and well Summa but honestly that idea doesn't take into account the fact that there are people born and with the same level of training and education (or less in some cases) become much better. Einstein wasn't produced by his parents, Einstein was born with a ceiling higher than 99% of the population, the same could be said of Socrates, Plato, Galileo, Tesla and all of the other people who were a hundred years or more ahead of their times. I mean even if you take the philosophy of everyone character starts out with 10 points to distribute you eventually have to admit that some people end up getting a really rare roll and start out with 25. Those examples alone sort of disprove the thought process that all people are born with the same ability as the next.

About the animals I didn't actually mean animals were comparable to humans I was just using that to setup the example of there being exceptional breeds in this world.

[kthx]

I mean also when you think about it, it isn't really that difficult to see where nature took over where nurture couldn't. Black people became black because of where they lives, their bodies adapted to the environment so much that they even passed down that gene to the next generation to give them a higher chance of success. The same could really be said of things like intelligence, behavior, and a ton of other traits that I don't believe are only a result of the way they are raised.

[genocidal]

Sun made black man black. God man black man white.

[PaulOakenfold]

Actually, that's a good question. What was the evolutionary reason for people developing lower melanoma and having whiter pigmentation as humans set up shop further and further North? Yeah, I got the whole 'sun isn't as strong year round' part, but why did people actually become fairer?

[Da1andonly]

I was going to mention crassos, fu epi (and kthx)!

[kthx]

Well I am sorta guessing that is partly due to the fact that in Europe they developed towns that had numerous shops that people had to watch and the fashion at the time was to be pale because the lords and ladies were never outside which proved they had lots of money. I mean obviously that doesn't explain everything but I could imagine a more advanced country getting paler who didn't have to send the entire village out to collect water all day or hunt animals or plant crops. You notice the closer a country is to being a third world country the darker their skin is in general.

But that doesn't explain Irish people (which a majority of aren't Irish like you think of IE gingers) who were for the most part really poor potato farmers. But thats my best guess PO

[kthx]

I was going to mention crassos, fu epi (and kthx)!

I had to study up on my history per Summa's signature.

[Jerome Scuggs]

equality of opportunity in law as a direct, literal law (ie no matter what, every kid gets the same array of opportunities/money/education/etc) would create a sort of "free rider" problem in that i could live my life not giving a fuck being useless, knock up some chick and then continue to not give a fuck and let someone else, the state, pay for and raise my kids, who in turn might follow my path since there's no real incentive to look beyond yourself or the next few years

i mean it's kind of sadistic and Machiavellian but it's uncertainty and the fear of dying/not providing which drives people to put effort into alot of things which drive progress in this world.

not really sure where im going with this, just throwing out a random thing for Summa to discuss in his paper if he's looking for ideas to argue for/against in his paper

[genocidal]

Well I am sorta guessing that is partly due to the fact that in Europe they developed towns that had numerous shops that people had to watch and the fashion at the time was to be pale because the lords and ladies were never outside which proved they had lots of money. I mean obviously that doesn't explain everything but I could imagine a more advanced country getting paler who didn't have to send the entire village out to collect water all day or hunt animals or plant crops. You notice the closer a country is to being a third world country the darker their skin is in general.

But that doesn't explain Irish people (which a majority of aren't Irish like you think of IE gingers) who were for the most part really poor potato farmers. But thats my best guess PO

That's not exactly how evolution works. Most likely, pale people always existed from the beginning (when everyone was in Africa). They were either ostracized socially or environmentally (sun damage) and migrated north. Because humans are fickle and always have been it was more likely that lighter-skinned people reproduced with other lighter skinned people. Evolution would say that there were external factors that made pale people mate and migrate together, not that their skin became lighter over a single lifetime in a single individual (if that's what were you saying, could not be).

But yeah you're basically right on the rest, there were social impetuses for paleness (just as there were social impetuses for darkness in some communities).

[kthx]

You are right but what I meant about the whole evolution thing wasn't from a single generation, I mean just how black people became darker from being in the sun with no shade for such a long period of time, we are looking at several hundred years or more of pale royalty only having children with other pale royalty sometimes from the same bloodlines. I believe that evolution did eventually change the genetic code to not having the need for as much pigment through 10-15 generations of children.

[Jerome Scuggs]

lol white people existed before royalty started inbreeding

edit:



is this how a family tee is supposed to look haha

[RednaZ]

Just gonna drop a small hint in here. Nobody even thought of the fact that the first humans who had migrated to colder regions (north if you insist) had pretty fucking thick fur/hair. Ever seen how white the skin of a hairy dog is? Hair + tan = fail

[PaulOakenfold]

Hmm, I guess I just assumed we were all decendents from mid-Africa and all originally had darker skin. I guess I didn't take into consideration the possibility that some people had mutated genes right from the beginning for skin tone, and somehow realized that moving north was better for them? Mostly because we don't see that today unless they're albino.

European royalty is pretty damn gross. The Austrians were just as guilty as the Castilians: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_of_Habsburg

[PaulOakenfold]

Just gonna drop a small hint in here. Nobody even thought of the fact that the first humans who had migrated to colder regions (north if you insist) had pretty fucking thick fur/hair. Ever seen how white the skin of a hairy dog is? Hair + tan = fail

Did they really? I understand there's no reason to have a darker skin tone if all of it is covered with hair, but why is it 'fail' (god I hate that word)?