Becoming a Minimalist

[Jerome Scuggs]

It has always been a hopeless battle in Trench Wars to interact and find common grounds, minimalist or not.

yea i apologize im having an existential crisis at the moment. about a year or so ago i watched this video:



and basically it has sent me down a long and winding path where i've realized that the drive towards efficiency is basically going to ruin our economy and probably civilization as more and more people lose jobs to automation.

but then i read this article in The Atlantic recently and i have realized that this reality might already be here - wages are flat, have been for awhile, and will only go down further as human labor becomes undesirable in the face of efficient automation. most everyone i know is struggling in one way or another, i know people who are doing pretty well, but i dont know anyone who is going to be living the same lifestyle that our parents were living when they were 30.

so all of this is going on in my head, trying to figure out if having a future with a decent career is even possible, and i see this thread and to me it's like... a part of the problem :P like capitalism has conditioned us to think that the reason we aren't successful is because we aren't working hard enough, we aren't efficient enough, we spend too much time choosing what shirt to wear and that's why i can't find a job with my skillset, qualifications and experience, and instead have to work at a logistics company where i basically murder my soul for 5 hours a day telling other people who are near their breaking point and have sick children and sick mothers, that they aren't working hard enough.

so ignore me this isnt personal you had no idea that starting this thread would cause me to think all of this. :P

[Hero Lrim]

yea i apologize im having an existential crisis at the moment. about a year or so ago i watched this video:



and basically it has sent me down a long and winding path where i've realized that the drive towards efficiency is basically going to ruin our economy and probably civilization as more and more people lose jobs to automation.

but then i read this article in The Atlantic recently and i have realized that this reality might already be here - wages are flat, have been for awhile, and will only go down further as human labor becomes undesirable in the face of efficient automation. most everyone i know is struggling in one way or another, i know people who are doing pretty well, but i dont know anyone who is going to be living the same lifestyle that our parents were living when they were 30.

so all of this is going on in my head, trying to figure out if having a future with a decent career is even possible, and i see this thread and to me it's like... a part of the problem :P like capitalism has conditioned us to think that the reason we aren't successful is because we aren't working hard enough, we aren't efficient enough, we spend too much time choosing what shirt to wear and that's why i can't find a job with my skillset, qualifications and experience, and instead have to work at a logistics company where i basically murder my soul for 5 hours a day telling other people who are near their breaking point and have sick children and sick mothers, that they aren't working hard enough.

so ignore me this isnt personal you had no idea that starting this thread would cause me to think all of this. :P

I see that you are establishing a relationship between efficiency and technology. It's great to address your concern regarding the effect of automation on job prospects. This is a topic that is quite controversial as our culture is constantly adapting to the rapid development of technology.

My 2cents:

Personally, I believe that in the history of the human race, technology has been the most influential factor in the progression of our species. Empires rise and fall, but technology impacts lives most significantly, and it has been statistically proven with many mathematical models to be true. Present-day humans are developing at the fastest rate in history due to the advent of the internet, which provides an outlet for sharing of information (if used wisely, many use it for porn :O etc) and collective ideas (in fact we are sharing ideas right now!). Ideas yield better technology, which improves our quality of life and increases longevity, in all social classes from the rich to the poor- sounds great, right? If we want to keep this trend, we have to continue striving forward.

Automation jeopardizes human employment? Yes, to a certain extent, but there will be a balance in the system.

Generally, life is dictated through an invisible balance. People elect public officials to develop and enforce policies. I don't foresee a high unemployment rate resulting from automation replacing humans b/c this will lead to social unrest, cultural and civil revolution. There's no denying that automation has replaced humans in many infrastructures. We can now use self-checkout machines at Walmart and many other stores. The rationale for self-checkout is to increase convenience and choice for the customers, saving them time and hassle from long lines. However, one cannot assume that Walmart has fired their cashiers, they simply allocated their human resources to other parts of the company.

Ultimately, there will be a striking balance - when we come to a point in society where automation can provide all our needs, we could use the free time to explore other means in life. Culture is constantly evolving and humans have always found a way to adapt and survive. Efficiency has been tested thru time, it has improved our quality of life and extended life expectancy. Perhaps I may be too optimistic to think we are going toward a utopia rather than a dystopian world, but only time will tell.

P.S. Just for clarification, I'm not suggesting that an individual needs to be a minimalist to attain success (subjective) in life. I'm simply projecting a particular perspective on minimalism that has influenced numerous world leaders, including Mark Zuckerberg, the late Steve Jobs, President Barack Obama, and many others.

[Hero Lrim]

this here. your attitude is wrong. you dont have problems, your responsibilites are fun to do you enjoy cleaning the table. etc. etc.

To further elaborate on this, our society has become excessively superficial and materialistic, and there are undoubtedly more important things in life than wasting time picking specific clothes to wear, food choices, other frivolous matters. If we reduce the time we spend thinking about repetitive aspects of our day, our mind will naturally be conditioned to focus on the important aspects of life. Make life simple and don't sweat the small stuff.

[qan]

It's sort of amusing (and a little exasperating) that you're suggesting joining the ranks of "Minimalists" is a path toward some kind of enlightenment. It might be toward a better and more efficient form of materialism than what most people are accustomed to, but it doesn't seem like it's aimed at anything else other than "achieving success" or "maximizing your goal-oriented time" or other such stuff. You're attempting to become the best materialist and self-serving egotist you can be.

Your examples of who to emulate are ... accurate. Steve Jobs was a monster who excelled at ruthless protection of what is essentially just a brand or aesthetic. The Zuck is a betrayer, and justifies a business model that makes the NSA turn green with envy by his new dedication to philanthropy -- which is itself wonderful, of course ... but also helps offset his conscience and build an aura of power around himself as a truly fantastic person who can do no wrong. Obama, for all his talk of noble ideals, is just another typical US President happy to continue American expansionist policies. He's built a brand for himself, and managed to Succeed on a personal level, satisfying his drive for domination, while throwing out distortion between thought and deed and further crushing the spirits of those who would believe that a better sort of world is possible.

If you want to emulate these people, you might find some bit of success among the more driven of the materialists. Why, though? Who are you competing against? Are you becoming more happy and satisfied because you have succeeded at doing something more efficiently than they have, made your life a better tool for your occupation?

To be efficient means to never enjoy some of the most rewarding things life has to offer. Love certainly isn't efficient -- it can get in the way a lot of the time, and when it goes wrong it can crush you for months or years. Beauty's not efficient. What's the point of watching the birds fly overhead? You could be lifting, bro. Or organizing your fork collection. Doing your taxes. Actualizing your goals. (Or playing Subspace?...)

What's the point of efficiency, is what I'm asking? What does being more efficient get you? If it's success (abstractly defined as it is), what does success earn you, exactly? And what are you giving up in order to achieve that success? You'll become the world's most boring person. 1 or 2 colors of shirt... how depressing. But very Modern. Have you considered that how you dress affects your mood? (It really does; it's been studied pretty extensively.) Dressing in one or two colors is not only monotonous (which might orient you toward a robotic sort of efficiency in life, maybe a positive) but it also removes the advantages one gets from wearing various colors. I don't take more than a couple of seconds to pick out what I'll wear but I still wear a lot of color, at least as contrast, because I enjoy it. It would be inefficient to wear only one or two colors (for me) because I wouldn't be ... maximizing something something success power goals dreams something something something.

I just don't see the end goal, other than cutting off meaningful and enjoyable parts of life to serve a goal, probably some sort of high-powered, career-oriented goal. This is hyper-Western mentality. You can be better at the materialists at their own game ... or you can step back a bit and think about what the hell you're doing to yourself.

But I guess that's the point: to reflect as little as possible, so that you don't waste any time Reaching for the Stars.

[Hero Lrim]

@qan- I'll keep this short since it's a Sunday night (premiere episode of season 6 GOT!!!) and I'm a minimalist. As stated above- to each his own on how people want to live their life. Zuckerberg, Jobs, Obama, and others notable minimalists (you can do personal research if you'd like) have one thing in common: they changed the world and affected billions of lives. They are (was, Jobs) some of the most interesting people in the world. I have more personality than most people in subspace and I'm a minimalist, so you're falsely assuming that minimalism = boredom. In a sense, minimalism is unique in our current era as people are striving to obtain the latest fashion, unearthly materialism, and delusional grandeur. Peer pressure is a big influence b/c it can affect self-esteem, many people are affected by the allure of conformity due to fear of not being accepted in society, so they continue to invest in trivial commodities.

I have my own opinion and I don't bandwagon on illogical ideas promoted by selected individuals with self interest. And I welcome others on this forum to challenge my viewpoints. In order for our society to progress, we must exchange ideas and everyone we meet in this world will know something we don't already know. I enjoy broadening my horizon by reading, listening, and interpreting other people's perspectives in life. Therefore, it's humility not egotism.

I suspect most people in this world are not familiar with the concept of minimalism, and that's OK. Some advantageous of minimalism include fewer decisions (-decision fatigue/+mental space/+productivity), less time and energy wasted, less stress, less expense, better peace of mind, and better organization. Of course there are sacrifices whether it be materialism, love, etc, but these sacrifices are insignificant in the grand scheme of the universe. The opportunity to affect many lives in a positive manner is one hell of a bargain. It would be an absolute privilege to leave behind a legacy.

Additionally, I highly disagree with your presumption that minimalism is an efficient form of materialism. Efficiency is being resourceful with time, money, and other obligations. In fact, it is counterintuitive to materialism, b/c in order to be efficient one must thoroughly obtain and carefully utilize resources; not consuming extra, especially making good use of time and energy. To be a minimalist is to eliminate superficial and materialistic desires that are deemed unnessary in life in order to focus on an objective. This is the essence of minimalism. Approximately one BILLION people (1 w/ 9 zero's behind it) starve each day on this planet, they are extremely undernourished, lacking proper food, clothing, shelter, basic utilities and convenience of life. We don't need to fucking buy expensive cars, houses, or expensive clothes while people are suffering on a daily basis. Naturally, there are exceptions, especially if an individual is in the field of design and sales, he/she may consider creativity important and stockpile various article of clothing, but that is acceptable since it's a particular way of life.

Also, minimalism isn't mutually exclusive to color of clothing as you seem to adamantly believe this is the core of the topic. You can apply it to many aspects of life as well. You can still be a minimalist by having a plethora of different colors of clothing, but only if you are willing to introspect and determine what is important/unimportant in your life & cut unnessary things. THIS IS MINIMALISM.

[qan]

To be totally clear, I don't think it's such a bad thing, in contrast to the typical approach to life, which, after the downfall of organized religion, is just "maximize pleasure." Usually that means buying a lot of stuff. Everyone makes fun of this lifestyle (hohoho, vapid consumerism!), yet many of us are deeply committed to it.

So don't get me wrong; I see the point to what you're talking about. I think it goes without saying that paring down your lifestyle makes life much more comfortable and manageable. In fact I'd probably qualify as a minimalist myself. I pretty much just buy what I need. I use a terrible computer because there's no justification for anything more, though I have plenty saved and could easily afford it. I haven't owned a car for something like 7 years now, and don't even have a nice bike because the one I have, while a piece of crap, is extremely fast and reliable. A few years ago I lived in a cabin in the woods, just reading and writing and playing music and living on next to nothing. When I moved back from Rhode Island I sold pretty much everything I own. I've traveled around with just a backpack, a tent and cooking supplies, hitchhiked for rides and set up camp in national forests. All that white guy late-20's crisis stuff, I've pretty much checked all the boxes. Anyhow, yeah, you don't need much to get by.

All that said, here's what bothers me. Much like strict vegetarians, the fitness-obsessed, and the fanatically religious, the way you present this idea of what makes a "minimalist" is an us-versus-them mentality. Are you one of the enlightened? Do you walk the Path? Have you read the pamphlet, bought the guidebook, followed all the steps? Have you accepted Jesus Minimalist as your Lord and personal Savior?

I'm guessing you're familiar with those sanctimonious nitwits at theminimalists.com. Perhaps you've signed up for the newsletter, and now you can identify as part of the gang. Minimalism be praised! I have an identity now! I'm a bodybuilder! I'm a Methodist!

Again, I'm not saying it's necessarily an approach that is somehow inferior to your average modern materialists. I'm pretty sure it's better. But once you ascribe to some sort of movement, you immediately lose a certain level of autonomy and reflection. You protect the group and disdain the Other. Whether that's another race, religion, country or mode of thought..

As I was saying before, the problem I see with minimalism in particular is a goal-oriented mindset. Is your goal just to influence or change the world -- like Jobs, for example, even if it's to help people feel good about excess purchases because a brilliant ad campaign has convinced them that like everyone else with enough money in their wallet, they, too, "think different"? What purpose does your goal serve, other than yourself? What is the point of influencing the world, for better or worse? (Meant as a question and not an assertion.)

[Crescent Seal]

?

thread bout minimalizing and ppl writing novels bout it

#irony #tl;dr #waterUwaring

[Hero Lrim]

?

thread bout minimalizing and ppl writing novels bout it

#irony #tl;dr #waterUwaring

It takes me fewer than three minutes to type these responses. Words flow naturally. I even took the courtesy to eliminate any redundant verbosity so people on this forum can articulate easier.

If this is tl;dr to you, well... I'll be nice today.

[Hero Lrim]

To be totally clear, I don't think it's such a bad thing, in contrast to the typical approach to life, which, after the downfall of organized religion, is just "maximize pleasure." Usually that means buying a lot of stuff. Everyone makes fun of this lifestyle (hohoho, vapid consumerism!), yet many of us are deeply committed to it.

So don't get me wrong; I see the point to what you're talking about. I think it goes without saying that paring down your lifestyle makes life much more comfortable and manageable. In fact I'd probably qualify as a minimalist myself. I pretty much just buy what I need. I use a terrible computer because there's no justification for anything more, though I have plenty saved and could easily afford it. I haven't owned a car for something like 7 years now, and don't even have a nice bike because the one I have, while a piece of crap, is extremely fast and reliable. A few years ago I lived in a cabin in the woods, just reading and writing and playing music and living on next to nothing. When I moved back from Rhode Island I sold pretty much everything I own. I've traveled around with just a backpack, a tent and cooking supplies, hitchhiked for rides and set up camp in national forests. All that white guy late-20's crisis stuff, I've pretty much checked all the boxes. Anyhow, yeah, you don't need much to get by.

All that said, here's what bothers me. Much like strict vegetarians, the fitness-obsessed, and the fanatically religious, the way you present this idea of what makes a "minimalist" is an us-versus-them mentality. Are you one of the enlightened? Do you walk the Path? Have you read the pamphlet, bought the guidebook, followed all the steps? Have you accepted Jesus Minimalist as your Lord and personal Savior?

I'm guessing you're familiar with those sanctimonious nitwits at theminimalists.com. Perhaps you've signed up for the newsletter, and now you can identify as part of the gang. Minimalism be praised! I have an identity now! I'm a bodybuilder! I'm a Methodist!

Again, I'm not saying it's necessarily an approach that is somehow inferior to your average modern materialists. I'm pretty sure it's better. But once you ascribe to some sort of movement, you immediately lose a certain level of autonomy and reflection. You protect the group and disdain the Other. Whether that's another race, religion, country or mode of thought..

As I was saying before, the problem I see with minimalism in particular is a goal-oriented mindset. Is your goal just to influence or change the world -- like Jobs, for example, even if it's to help people feel good about excess purchases because a brilliant ad campaign has convinced them that like everyone else with enough money in their wallet, they, too, "think different"? What purpose does your goal serve, other than yourself? What is the point of influencing the world, for better or worse? (Meant as a question and not an assertion.)

Deep introspection is crucial to earmark important and unimportant aspects of life, so we can discard the distractions. It varies among the general population, arbitrarily and subjectively catered to individualized priorities. Enlightenment can be found virtually in any experience and usually it's spontaneous. Minimalism has helped me reach closer to an enlightened state of mind, perhaps it can help others too if they reflect. By no means is it suggestive of a superiority complex.

I'm glad you had a good time removing yourself from modern society for a brief moment in that cabin. I can't imagine how peaceful it must have been. Reminds me of Henry David Thoreau@Walden.

[Crescent Seal]

It takes me fewer than three minutes to type these responses. Words flow naturally. I even took the courtesy to eliminate any redundant verbosity so people on this forum can articulate easier.

If this is tl;dr to you, well... I'll be nice today.

3 mins? learn 2 do in 3 seconds. learn 2 b minimalist.

[rothe]

[qan]

Ran across this, seemed appropriate: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikigai

[Voth]

[Zeebu]

also, if you're a male you should be able to pick out a shirt in less than 3 seconds

my clothing decision making is primarily controlled by whether it is clean or not

[Zeebu]

i think we can all agree that the internet should be blown up