Bandwagon Atheists and religions

[sTuPiD-gErBiL]

Originally posted by Troll King
A lot of murders are caused by money and/or sex. Should we outlaw those too?

i think the proper terms you're implying are greed and jealousy. the money/sex is merely the catylist. however, the religious extremist thing can be attributed to people with poor moral judgement being easily influenced by current and previous poor judgements in that religion's history. i personally don't like organized religion because it encourages people to stop thinking on their own by providing all the alleged answers for you as well as segregating people by looking down upon non-members. i'm all about self-discovery and allowing each person to formulate whatever works best for them.

[Troll King]

You can make a similar case that it isn't religion but faith that's at fault.

[ÆNIMA]

The faith is at fault...I hear it opposite, the faith is perfect, the people are at fault, we aren't perfect ya know.

That's what they say anyway.

There are churches that encourage personal study of the scriptures, but you've got to remember...there's a lot of stuff in the bible. And there's a lot of history behind it....a wise biologist once said: "Take everything I know about biology, and everything I know about religion, and I still don't have a mere fraction of everything there is to know in the world, I have the faith that somewhere it all makes sense in this vast pool of knowledge." He was referring to how evolution and creationism don't seem to fit together, but with everything else that we don't know yet....it's possible.

Basically meaning, what you have perceived from the bible may or may not be correct, and chances are, there's something else in there to support or shed new light on a certain subject. For example, many people believe the godhead to be 1 being, and many others believe it to be 3 beings (father, son, holy ghost)
Many scriptures support the 3-beings, whereas Christ himself says "the father and I are one". There's at first glance an obvious contradiction, but he explains it in a certain logical flow that takes a couple times to read to understand. Which supports the 3 seperate beings...or you could just disgaurd the evidence that shows there's 3 beings (meaning you think that some parts of the bible are wrong) and go with the 1 being idea.

All in all, I can't find large bunny rabbits or chocolate in the bible anywhere...

Crven, it wasn't gideons leaving lincoln logs in your sock drawer, listen to it again:P

"I'm gonna catch me a Gideon, I'm gonna call up the hotel manager and say 'Hey, there doesn't seem to be a bible in my room.'"

[za gophar]

Take away religion and you take away religious fanatics, AE.

but you dont take away the idiots. if osama wasnt religious would he still be a terrorist? probably.

[sTuPiD-gErBiL]

Originally posted by Troll King
You can make a similar case that it isn't religion but faith that's at fault.

in a way, you're right.. but you'd still need an extremist to pave the way for others. and most extremists develop from following the set rules and structures too literally.

let's use christianity as an example (since it's what most of us are readily familiar with): by principle, to be saved, you must accept god in your life. so that means that some kid born in a foreign land who has never even heard of god or christians has no chance at a happy afterlife unless he finds out about this god guy and starts believing in him. now, most people who have faith in christianity would easily overlook this point and use the kid's moral behavior to determine where he should go when he dies. however, the literalists would say "no way.. he's screwed." and the extremists would say "it's our job to convert him so he can be saved... if he refuses to convert, then we should kill him." faith itself is nothing more than belief in something you can't prove.... but the problem with faith is that it requires a fair amount of maturity and intelligence to handle. keep in mind that most religious extremists have nothing but the best intentions in mind for their respective religion, even if it means doing things that go against everything they supposedly stand for.

[Cylor]

you're very right. the crusades, WW1, 9/11, all of the fighting that's ever existed in the middle east... etc. all of those were brought on by extremist religious beliefs.

Contrary to what most people think, 9/11 was brought upon by the U.S.'s actions; not because Osama and Co. hate America or Christianity. In fact, when the U.S. was supplying weapons to Osama and his country religion didn't matter one bit.


And as far as the war over religion thing, that's a load of crap. Religion is merely a tool to base wars off of, not the underlying cause of war. People are corrupt and religion merely filled a void to unleash their hatred.

People will always be different; just because someone believes a bird is their God rather than an almighty being doesn't mean they hate eachother. Face it, we all think differently and we will all have our own opinions on things to which the answer isn't obvious.

Take away religion and you have wars over land, race, and any other thing that divides people.

[Louis XV]

I don't think it's entirely accurate that religion is responsible for most of the wars this world has seen. You mentioned WW1. Blind nationalism and a culture crisis (the rise of modernism, a sense of boredom) played huge roles in the war. You can't deny that religion is often used as a point of contention, but you can't ignore other underlying factors when it comes to war, either. (Economics and strategic resources).

I would have to venture that nationalism is far more dangerous than religion. Then again, nationalism is nothing more than another form of religion (worshipping the state rather than a deity). It's all the same irrational nonsense. I maintain that if it weren't for cognitive dissonance (our uncanny ability to lie to ourselves by denying the obvious), religion wouldn't even exist. Then again, we'd all have gone mad by now. The truth ain't pretty. Storytelling (religion) is the opiate of the masses.

za gophar wrote: "it isnt like you wasted your life being religious."

Perhaps, but look at all those who have (crusaders, suicide bombers, mass suicide cult members, priests.) God is holding us back, wasting human potential that could be better applied to furthering humanity as a whole. Christians mostly just talk about being nice to their fellow man, all the while ready to kill, starve, or foricbly breed little brown people.

[Cylor]

Before you decide what "religion" (or the lack thereof) you are, ask yourself this:

Is it better to have believed in something that made you happier and gave you an optimistic perspective on life or to go through life without believing in that something, even if believing meant that your life was just a tiny bit better?

[ÆNIMA]

If you've ever read "Good Omens" I think the authors hit the nail on the head when the demon was saying something along the lines (not direct quote, i'm using quotations anyway) "A lot of the things that the humans do to their selves they made up, we had nothing to do with it...in fact, a lot of the things they dream up are things that demons, or even angels could never even imagine, and the funny thing is...they go and blame the things they do on Satan, 'ooh ya, satan made me do it, it's all him' then they get off for a triple murder because some jury buys it" Saying that God is holding us back implies that he's in EVERYONE's life controlling their destiny, which may or may not be true....but the truth is, he has his purpose, and you can't understand that purpose, and it's not your job to understand that

Cylor, your post before louis's reminded me of another Bill Hicks thingy, again...not exact quote..."America has no threats, well....except for the countries that we arm first, but they're so tiny they can't do anything. We gave them the SCUD, so what? we have the PATRIOT! the SCUD TIMES 2! we gave them muskets, 'pssssssssssst' what's that? it's MUSKET REPELLANT, we're thugs."

[Bioture]

can we please not start this stupid-ass discussion about god?

[sTuPiD-gErBiL]

Originally posted by CyloR
Contrary to what most people think, 9/11 was brought upon by the U.S.'s actions; not because Osama and Co. hate America or Christianity. In fact, when the U.S. was supplying weapons to Osama and his country religion didn't matter one bit.

the U.S. action that pissed them off the most was providing israel with supplies, money, and big brother-esque support. in case you've forgotten, israel has been a part (along with the muslim extremists) of the continuing battle over the holy land. the christians were also a part of that battle, but they more or less gave up after all the crusades blew up in their faces. but basically, america went ahead and gave support to one side of the religious war (while neglecting the other side completely), so that action basically sparked an ill-justified retaliation based on the idea that america was trying to help the jews win against the muslims.

once again, it's a matter of idiots and madmen allowing themselves to be improperly influenced by religion instead of embracing the many positive aspects those religions have to offer.

[Cylor]

sTuPiD-gErBiL, the one recurrent theme in both of our arguements is the U.S. supplying third-world countries with weapons. We have been playing God in the Middle East ever since France and other European countries became less of a force (post-WW2). Supplying weapons to any and every country within that area and reaping the benefits of natural resources (oil, land, etc.).

To make this simple, Osama bin Laden couldn't care less about America and their main religion (whether it be Christianity or whatever) when we were supplying him with weapons. The moment we aided the enemy is when they got mad; it had nothing to do with the United States and the affliation with its citizens to Christianity.

P.S. Lemme join Cherrypick (I have the name Cherrypicker)

[sTuPiD-gErBiL]

yup, it all comes down to blurring the lines between religious extremism and nationalist extremism. both are equally as bad because the only people who end up getting shafted are the innocents.

p.s. i own the squad, but live wire runs it. go figure. =P

[Bioture]

http://forums.trenchwars.org/showthr...0&pagenumber=4

best thread ever.

[Vitron2]

Originally posted by bloodzombie
I don't know if there's a god either, but if there is, I'm sure me and him are cool.. I really can't imagine he'd be up there smiting people because they didn't gather in the church and talk about how awesome he is.

Allot of people have this mind set, and allot of people don't know what "being a Christian" is. It's not about going to church. It not about being 'religious'. It’s about admitting and believing that: We sinned, Jesus died as a perfect sacrifice taking our punishment, and follow him (obey the Bible).

It has nothing to do with going to church (don’t hear me wrong, you should go to church, find out more about this, ask the pastor questions). But it’s a personal relationship, and faith. That’s what keeps you out of eternal pain and punishment for turning your back.

If you have the opinion that ‘well I’ll be religious, what do I have to lose if God isn’t real’ Then you have allot to lose. Claming your “religious” and thinking you can fake your way to heaven, or do good things to get into heaven isn’t a good move.

Go to a local Christian church, make an appointment, and ask the pastor about it. Using forums just isn’t the same.

There’s no gray area, you’re a Christian and you believe, or you aren’t. It’s not about God smiting you, it’s about you turning away from him, and not excepting Jesus to take your punishment of death.


Vitron