nader 4 prez?

[Subjugation]

he just announced his entrance to the 2004 presidential race...

any opinions? good or bad?

[Dameon Angell]

why does he bother?

the only thing he's doing is taking away votes for kerry and gonna make bush win.

[sour]

grrrr bush make sour angry!

[Spider]

I don't know a heck of a lot about the dynamics of an American presidential race.. I do think he cost Gore the last election though. Last time Bush won Florida by 1,000 votes or something, and Nader took 100 times that many.

I suppose he does think he has something to prove, and something to stand for... At the same time I think they only real effect he will have is to possibly split the vote enough to let Bush win again. I don't think he can get the corporations out of the white house or whatever it is that he wants to do.

I suppose the question is, if you can't win is it still worth it? Some would say yes, some would say no. Personally I'm really not sure. I don't know enough about the Democratic party. If they are basically Republicans then I would say go for it. He has nothing to lose if we are just talking about the "lesser of two evils". If the Democrats really aren't that bad then I would say maybe he should sit it out.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

I'll probably be voting Nader again.

Here's the problem. The majority of the US voting public are people that insist that they care about the way this country is heading, but don't care enough to actually explore what each candidate is truly about. It's become a stupid popularity contest, where whoever looks or acts more "presidential" generally ends up winning.

Not to get all serious about this, but it's a serious issue. I know at this point that I'm going to lose readers, since this post is more than 2 sentences long (not to mention not containing the ever-popular "<3" or retarded image ganked straight from flamehq), but it's something to think about:

In the 2000 presidential election, only a little more than half of the US voting population ended up casting a ballot (105 million out of 209 million). The election was lost to Bush not because Ralph Nader "stole votes from the Democrats," but because the Democratic party was so weak to begin with. There were plenty of opportunities for the party to cash in on Clinton's successes and perpetuate the party. The people that truly did change their voting from Gore to Nader did so because Gore is still part of the bigger problem--the two party system that annually becomes less and less polarized. You can say what you want, but it's pretty fair to say that both the Democrat and Republican parties have strayed from their original charters and have gradually become more moderate than anything else.

What the US needs more than anything is something that would tear down the current corporate culture of the federal government, and re-establish a trust with the people that it's claiming to defend, it's own citizens. I've thought about it long and hard, and I'm not saying it's time to rush the Bastille with pitchforks just yet, but there truly does need to be a renaissance in US politics.

This sweeping change isn't going to come from either the Democratic or Republican nominee. Both parties are far too entrenched in "popular opinion poll warfare" to truly take a stance on anything besides no-brainers. And even then, they welsh (ie, Bush on same-sex marriage. What the fuck are you thinking, GW?). I supported Dennis Kucinich up until this point because he was the only candidate that really understood how broken the US is, and seemed to be the only one with a real plan for rebuilding.

It seems really cliched, but what it comes down to is this: the American people have the chance to truly change their own lives for the better. Until people stop trying to "pin the blame on the other guy", accept personal responsibility and vote their conscience, we're never going to get anywhere other than the end of this one-way street we're on right now.

If you're of voting age, make your opinion heard, whatever it is. Check out websites, read interviews, watch the horribly scripted debates... do whatever it takes to make sure you're not just voting for some person because you like the way their sign looks in your yard.

[Subjugation]

amen!

[Jason]

Nader's definitely getting my vote.

[hogo]

anyone who wants to legalize pot is allright in my book...

[Yojo]

Conc's view is clearly right wing, and that's cool. I however disagree. As of right now, I have no faith in our government, and in fact it scares me to a certain extent. I'm sure that right wing conservatives somehow persuaded Nader to run. In his Meet the Press interview he stated that the only reason that he would drop out from the race would be if it gurunteed Bush reelection. When politics drop to that level, it is then we know that they are no longer politcs, but a game.

Conservatives will clearly do anything to get the relection for a guy that will give them, the upper right wing white male class advantages. Bush started his campaign officailly yesterday when he said he wanted to make a constitution amendment to ban the term marrige for gay couples. That my friends, is scary, 15 years from now the gay marrige issue will be looked at on the same level as womens suffrage slavery and the rights of African Americans, and Bush will be remembered as the person who was against it.

In a time like this, after a crisis such as September 11th, is when dictators rise. I'm not saying Bush is a dictator by any means, but when someone has the power to amend the COnstitutuion of the United States of Amierca becasue of peoples fear of their own inner self, is when we know we have a problem. Heck even though it says we have a separation of church and state, Bush continues to run his presidency on religion. He is toying with the Constituion, are reputation, our history and us, and he must be stopped.

Take this however you might, however down the road history textbooks will look at this as a time of crisis, and abuse of power. Bush does what he wishes for the minorty, and himself, and is not a true representative of the American people.

But hey, thats jus't my view.

And Spider, Gore lost Florida by 412 votes. Exit polls say 90% of Naders votes would have gone left.

[PUNK rock]

Originally posted by Yojo
In his Meet the Press interview he stated that the only reason that he would drop out from the race would be if it gurunteed Bush reelection. When politics drop to that level, it is then we know that they are no longer politcs, but a game.

Conservatives will clearly do anything to get the relection for a guy that will give them, the upper right wing white male class advantages. Bush started his campaign officailly yesterday when he said he wanted to make a constitution amendment to ban the term marrige for gay couples. That my friends, is scary, 15 years from now the gay marrige issue will be looked at on the same level as womens suffrage slavery and the rights of African Americans, and Bush will be remembered as the person who was against it.

Completely correct. I saw a brief clip about Nader and his entry into the election, but for him to say that is unprofessional and it does make the election look like a game.

The white upper middle class you speak of is power dependent. They want their right to bear arms, their concealed carry (although I agree with this based on crime statistics after the laws were inacted), their inflated defense budgets and the list goes on. The budget is in shambles and the deficit is at an all time high.

Banning gay marriages is unneccesary and stupid. Nor is a Constitiutional Amendment needed. 18th Amendment ring a bell? It's a state issue and even then it would be stupid to bar gays from marrying. Perhaps the term "union" and not marriage could be used, but that's not the real problem. The truth is Bush has mismanaged this country enoguh as it is. Another 4 years of him would make it even worse.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Originally posted by Yojo
Conc's view is clearly right wing, and that's cool.

You either don't know me very well, or I did a very good job of trying to sound neutral.

[bloodzombie]

Conc, your post makes sense and all, but odds are that those same 104 million people are going to not vote again.

maybe I'm a pessemist, but I really don't think any real change is going to happen from this election, so if I can get bush out of office for voting for 'the other guy', that's the course of action I'll take.

I considered voting for nader when I first heard that he had entered the race, but I feel a serious sense of urgency to remove bush from office. In the last election, I had considered bush and gore to be basically the same guy, and didn't really care that much which one won, in a case like that, nader's a good vote, but since it turned out that our president is geniuinely evil, something needs to be done.

[bloodzombie]

I was a little confused by that right winG comment too

[abrasion]

Hes nutty like squirrel shit.

[Subjugation]

originally posted by ConcreteSchlyrd
I know at this point that I'm going to lose readers, since this post is more than 2 sentences long...

Originally posted by ConcreteSchlyrd
You either don't know me very well, or I did a very good job of trying to sound neutral.

...or he didn't read your post very well. it's pretty obvious you bashed both parties (deservedly).