Ideas for population growth

[MHz]

Absurd/offensive (but non-targetted) opinions do not make people leave the game - otherwise we'd all have left. Conversely, many people like subspace precisely because it's like the wild wild west of the old internet, where normies, nannies and do-gooders are righteously shunned. Let's not bring in this fashionable vernacular of 'hate speech' and 'platforming' to sanitise pub of all the riff raff and gopniks. Subspace is not a 'platform'- people arguing in pub is like drunk hobos arguing in the park, and - for better or for worse - they should be left alone. ?ignore or simply don't read. I happily play pub and don't ever read a single word of blue text.

[WillBy]

Absurd/offensive (but non-targetted) opinions do not make people leave the game - otherwise we'd all have left. Conversely, many people like subspace precisely because it's like the wild wild west of the old internet, where normies, nannies and do-gooders are righteously shunned. Let's not bring in this fashionable vernacular of 'hate speech' and 'platforming' to sanitise pub of all the riff raff and gopniks. Subspace is not a 'platform'- people arguing in pub is like drunk hobos arguing in the park, and - for better or for worse - they should be left alone. ?ignore or simply don't read. I happily play pub and don't ever read a single word of blue text.

Okay, but how are we going to get the new players to ignore the chat? I dont think anyone who still plays finds the chat too awful to continue playing, but the title of the post is "Ideas for population growth", and the argument before it got watered down was that pub chat, in it's current form, renders any attempt at advertising moot.

[Exalt]

I said he should be silenced but yes I can't stand people complaining for words, there's always been a lot complaining about pub been too toxic. It is so rare to read something like "we should eradicate non-white people" I think I never read such things here, yet a shit load of white knights are constantly complaining that they hear things they dont want to.

The problem with this game is it has too many incels like the above poster running around. They've never left mom's basement and never will. Their only accomplishment in life is to be good at a spaceship game that's 20 years past it's prime. At some point, people need to self-reflect on why the game's population died. It likely isn't due to people in pub. It's due to the veterans that still play at 30+ years of age, yet still act like adolescent brats. They simply haven't learned to adult yet, and they never will. For whatever reason, their brains never fully developed, so instead of becoming normal, productive members of society, they became like this guy I'm quoting.

Serious question: Who the fuck in the real world says the term 'white knights'? Anyone? Have you ever heard that phrase said in real life? That's a word only said by incels who hate 'SJWs' and other 'culture war' shit on the internet. These people are literally retarded, and they make up a huge portion of the veteran player base who are still active in the game. That's the problem right there. It's not fixable as far as I can tell. Just accept it and move on.

[Exalt]

Lets target poverty stricken countries and create shelters where people could play for food.

Or what about DavidParody/Children? He has now made it big on youtube now with 3.2million subscribers.

He could do a Review games video... even if he spent the entire time saying how rubbish a 2d game is we would still get a few thousand new players. Zone would crash for sure.

I just checked his youtube out. He does mostly food videos, like 'watch me eat a ridiculously unhealthy amount of food and laugh at me as I cry about it later' or '5 dollar pizza vs 1000 dollar pizza' type thing. I think I'd shoot myself before doing that for a living, but to each their own. Point is, there's like 0 chance he will make a video about Subspace/Continuum.

[Efhat]

I asked Henry Safari if I could join staff as ZH or whatever just to actually try to help out anyway and whoever I could, but he turned me down immediately

so why don't we make a thread of people who are interested in being a zh, or staff to help the zone, and from that list, staff can be transparent and pick who meets the qualifications or give a reason on the thread why that person wouldn't be fit.

at this point idk why we aren't being more transparent with people who are trying to be staff to help out the zone.

theres a few people i talk to in this game who have been turned down from staff for no reason and people in charge arent transparent about it publicly.

[Wirah]

so why don't we make a thread of people who are interested in being a zh, or staff to help the zone, and from that list, staff can be transparent and pick who meets the qualifications or give a reason on the thread why that person wouldn't be fit.

This is a really good idea and we'll make a thread v soon. Applying to staff isn't highlighted as often as it should be, and the staff application system is buried deep in the old, early-2000's admin area that noone really checks. Let's make a push for new staffers to come forward and list what they can offer to help. Do you think we should make a new subforum for it, rather than a single long thread?

[ronaldinho]

The problem with this game is it has too many incels like the above poster running around. They've never left mom's basement and never will. Their only accomplishment in life is to be good at a spaceship game that's 20 years past it's prime. At some point, people need to self-reflect on why the game's population died. It likely isn't due to people in pub. It's due to the veterans that still play at 30+ years of age, yet still act like adolescent brats. They simply haven't learned to adult yet, and they never will. For whatever reason, their brains never fully developed, so instead of becoming normal, productive members of society, they became like this guy I'm quoting.

Serious question: Who the fuck in the real world says the term 'white knights'? Anyone? Have you ever heard that phrase said in real life? That's a word only said by incels who hate 'SJWs' and other 'culture war' shit on the internet. These people are literally retarded, and they make up a huge portion of the veteran player base who are still active in the game. That's the problem right there. It's not fixable as far as I can tell. Just accept it and move on.

I had to fend for myself when I was still in school yet this guy claim he knows me. You talk about incel lol, but just seeing your daily anger I guess that : either your wife is so repulsive that you don't want to fuck her, or.. you're an incel. In the "real world" no one is going to cry when someone says something they don't like, there is no reason to call anyone a white knight since wanting to prevent people from talking is strictly an internet thing. Yet you're here crying again. Is it really beign an adult to connect daily to a game forum, you don't even play, to spit hate? Look at yourself lol.

Also you always have been an horrendous player, stop trying to convince people you were good at any point of this game's history, it never happened.

[LF]

While I can't speak for staff, I can speak as a member of staff for many years. I sorta just came back after an extended absence but public chat hasn't changed and while it doesn't bother me personally, that doesn't make it any less disgusting. I'm a father now and there's literally zero chance I would allow my child to play this game. I know I could ?lines=0 or ?ignore people on her behalf but it feels wrong to have some introvert call my daughter a faggot because she killed him or to spam her with death threats and other various extremisms because she's playing a ship that he doesn't like at that particular moment. The chat alone prevents me from bringing people I know and/or care about irl to this game.

As a moderator, I care. I WANT to help improve this zone. I always have. Enforcing extreme speech/hate/etc is something I would LOVE to do. I could clean up chat in about 5 minutes and keep it that way if I were allowed. However, its such a subjective topic. I know for a fact if I started silencing the biggest disruptions this forum would be flooded with threads about how much I abuse and how they did nothing wrong and there's nothing illegal about calling an 8 year old a shit eating faggot or telling a player that you are going to kill their whole family because they won a duel. I could make 95% of the population happier but the 5% would be the loudest in demanding my head for it. Considering most of our pop is grown ass men, it's impossible to do this job without constantly wearing your kid gloves. Its really kinda pathetic. If we can get some positive change on this topic, I will gladly enforce it.

I'm still fresh back to TW so I don't know what's going on behind the scenes but I can't imagine why anyone would be turned down for staff, much less an established, competitive player but those decisions are not mine to make. There's more than enough competency in this game to keep it going for another 20+ years. Sometimes, changes come too late but better late than never at all.

[kthx]

While I can't speak for staff, I can speak as a member of staff for many years. I sorta just came back after an extended absence but public chat hasn't changed and while it doesn't bother me personally, that doesn't make it any less disgusting. I'm a father now and there's literally zero chance I would allow my child to play this game. I know I could ?lines=0 or ?ignore people on her behalf but it feels wrong to have some introvert call my daughter a faggot because she killed him or to spam her with death threats and other various extremisms because she's playing a ship that he doesn't like at that particular moment. The chat alone prevents me from bringing people I know and/or care about irl to this game.

As a moderator, I care. I WANT to help improve this zone. I always have. Enforcing extreme speech/hate/etc is something I would LOVE to do. I could clean up chat in about 5 minutes and keep it that way if I were allowed. However, its such a subjective topic. I know for a fact if I started silencing the biggest disruptions this forum would be flooded with threads about how much I abuse and how they did nothing wrong and there's nothing illegal about calling an 8 year old a shit eating faggot or telling a player that you are going to kill their whole family because they won a duel. I could make 95% of the population happier but the 5% would be the loudest in demanding my head for it. Considering most of our pop is grown ass men, it's impossible to do this job without constantly wearing your kid gloves. Its really kinda pathetic. If we can get some positive change on this topic, I will gladly enforce it.

I'm still fresh back to TW so I don't know what's going on behind the scenes but I can't imagine why anyone would be turned down for staff, much less an established, competitive player but those decisions are not mine to make. There's more than enough competency in this game to keep it going for another 20+ years. Sometimes, changes come too late but better late than never at all.

The fact that it doesn't bother you is probably due to the fact thst you saw it all when you were a kid like a lot of us did. Theres only much said in public chat that kids don't hear on the bus by the time they are 10. Most of us turned out alright and frankly trying to get older players who are more laid back over 13 year olds who get offended is probably the better move anyways given the age of the veteran playerbase. I would much rather get called a jewfaggot than listen to 13 year olds being faggots.

On top of that even if you banned for racism are you really going to ban people for talking about fucking a chick or something in public chat. I'd rather my kid get called a faggot than have them hear about a balls deep escapade.

[Sir BattyCrease]

the chat is probably off-putting to most new-comers - but i think the emotion felt by any newbie would be... perplexing, not offence - why are people playing the game even discussing race and religion? isn't this... a game?

tbh the line between subspace/continuum being an IRC channel or a game is so blurry these days. there are people who literally log on just to talk nonsense seemingly because there's nobody else for them to talk to and have their views heard. i think that if we want the chat to be cleaned up, then religious and racial talk should be confined to private chat groups ?chat etc, and completely off-limits in public/team/spec chat. and those who think it's fascist and fucking with their right to talk can be silenced or banned until the message comes through - that they can talk whatever the fuck they want to talk about, just not in pub chat where it could be detrimental to the goal of bringing and retaining new players. anyone can join these chat groups, anyone can leave, and anything can be spoken about without fear of being banned or silenced, thus retaining some of the morons who talk shit but do play, and hopefully retaining new-comers who otherwise might be put off by what's being said in pub

i think the above would make it easier for moderators
if someone is trying to incite religious or racial debate - give a stern warning to keep it to private groups only - if it persists, then a silence for an hour - if it still goes on, then a ban for a day.

although i think it's somewhat unfair to blame moderators for not doing anything - the rules aren't crystal clear on what sort of talk is acceptable and what isn't, and is therefore left for interpretation - so there's different results each time. moderators aren't paid, they aren't full-timers here, and yes, some of them probably do not even give a shit until unacceptable talk becomes blatant. i believe if we trialled no religious/race talk in pub and spec chat, chat rules will become easier to enforce.

i really do believe in free speech but this is a game - where people pass the time and have a bit of fun - how it's become an IRC chat room for freaks to try and incite retarded debates about religion and race i do not know

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assuming the whole pub chat thing isn't the biggest issue we have, let's throw another variable out there:

have some of you forgotten how old this game is and that there's better games out there? new consoles? awesome GPUs to play more engaging games? anyone remember that nobody can actually update the client we use because nobody has the rights to?

it's natural selection people - kids these days will gravitate towards better games, not ones released in the 90s and barely updated, with bugs that no one can fix

anyways, not trying to put people's efforts down just saying... stop being so emotional over it. population decline is natural for a game like this with the above issues, and there isn't much anyone else can do and i think plenty of people here have given a lot of free time to try and get subspace going again

[Sir BattyCrease]

tl;dr - basically i think it's time to start treating this game more as a game rather than a IRC room with a spaceship game attached on the side

[kthx]

The only reason this game is still around is the higher than average charisma, intelligence, and comedy that the players in this game have for whatever reason. Stifling them will be the death knell and all you have left will be an outdated game instead of an outdated game with a good atmosphere. You can look back in the games history and see entire squads quitting around the same time and the gaping hole it opened. Pallies in particular.

[qan]

i think that if we want the chat to be cleaned up, then religious and racial talk should be confined to private chat groups ?chat etc, and completely off-limits in public/team/spec chat.

We actually ran a vote at one point for this, as there were enough people who felt this was a good idea. I don't remember the exact result, but it ended something like 20% in favor and 80% against.

I'd suggest buying !stfu when you're online for a very nominal fee if you dislike the chat. If it's racist or borderline racist, you can use ?cheater to report it. Or you can also !report players, which is sent to moderators via Slack and is reviewed later. If enough people !report a person—and you can use this for just about anything, including talking about religion or just talking too much—they'll be temporarily muted. !report isn't functioning all that well, though, and we're brainstorming ways to improve it so that it can be more useful/effective.

[Exalt]

I actually don't think the problem is the chat being full of idiots. That's pretty minor compared to the real issue. The entire game's documentation and control scheme is extremely poorly documented. There's very little chance a brand new person to this game will learn the controls and figure everything out before saying fuck it and just quitting. Being spammed green text and hitting F2 a few times isn't going to do a thing. The system is extremely unintuitive and antiquated. That's just a fact. It feels like the UI of this game was built by people who were doing a thesis statement on how to build the worst UI and control scheme possible.

My question is, what ever happened to the training mode this game used to have? There used to be an offline 'tutorial' mode where you'd learn to move and shoot shit. It was in the original continuum client when Priitk first made it, but it was removed in some later update however many years later. I don't remember what year it was removed, but I remember it existed. I still don't know why it was taken out. That being said, I'm not sure what else could be done to improve the learning curve.

I mean I tried logging in the other day for the first time in many months, and I forgot half the controls myself. I couldn't remember how to move the cursor when looking at the arena list or viewing player names with F2. I don't even have Page UP/Page Down buttons on this keyboard, so I don't remember what other method I used to use. Point is, if I can't remember controls after playing for 15 years, what chance does a brand new player have to learn anything before giving up?

[Exalt]

Besides all that, most people who play this game long-term usually did so because they eventually learned that other arenas exist. Explain to me how people are supposed to find out about them? I've met pubbers that never knew there were other arenas after years of playing. That said, even if they find other arenas, what will they do there? Let's say they figure out how to ?go Base, and let's pretend there is some hypothetical world where they get added to a game. How are they supposed to know what to do? Where in this game does it explain to new players how to base, what ship has what responsibilities, what a cram is, etc? How will they ever learn these things? They won't unless someone teaches them, and the community is too small for that to be something that can be counted on in 2020 or beyond. The magic of this game comes from leagues, but without being trained in how to play in leagues (or how to find them), they never will be a part of them. Leagues are the reason most people want 'new players' to join the game, but that likely won't ever be a thing anyway.