New Server Lag!?

[Helps]

There's a lot of bitching lately about lag ever since we moved to the new server.

Can we get some concrete data on the new versus old server?

What are the differences?

1. Cost
2. Dedicated vrs Shared Server?
3. Average Ping
4. Average S2C Ploss
5. What are options to upgrade?
   1. I love the game and would be willing to sponsor a month of server cost if we moved to a new and better server

[Rab]

0. Who are you?
1. Old server was paid for by Priitk, it was dedicated and old and depending on him sucked. New server is paid from tw funds (~$50/mo), hence choosing something cheap to avoid running out of cash quickly. Dedicated would be about $150/mo. From memory I think we had about 3 years worth of funds.
2. VPS
3. Ping is fine, varies by location as you'd expect, ploss is the issue.
4. Old server was 0, new server is 0.1% usually, with spikes seemingly coinciding with windows updates. Some people have extreme lag and use VPN to get around it.
5. :
A) Change host but keep roughly the same product. Works if the issue is host-specific.
B) Change to a dedicated server. Higher monthly cost. If we change server and host at the same time we wouldn't know which worked.
C) Change from Windows to Linux. Requires changing from Subgame to ASSS game server, which would break bots until substantial dev work completed.

Notes:
- It was a fking nightmare the last time we moved server, it isn't as straightforward as you'd think - although we kept good notes for future reference, we don't want to do it more than absolutely necessary.
- A server move would cause downtime so should be scheduled around leagues.
- The donation system needs work. We need subscriptions too.

[qan]

The issues that were caused simply by the processing of the server are mostly resolved, but unfortunately there are still some issues with the server running on a modern version of Windows. PriitK's solution was to run on an ancient version but lock it down extremely tightly. Ours is locked down well but also running recent updates.

Rab is absolutely correct that it was an incredibly difficult and exhausting process that involved 10+ people with varying types of experience working over a couple of weeks. Money isn't the bottleneck here but rather time.

The net issues that are not solved by rebooting the server are likely due to the host. But, more specifically, the location we're hosted at. The simplest possible improvement would be keeping the same provider but moving to a different data center. They're able to do this by simply copying our virtual server to another location. However, this would have a few issues: it would increase ping slightly for all Euro players, probably by 5-15ms for each player; we'd need to get another IP whitelisted with Priit (probably not so hard, but he's not the easiest person to reach); and we'd need to reconfigure some things on the server. Also, it would have absolutely no guarantee of fixing the issue. (Neither would moving hosts. Indeed, it's possible that issues could actually be worse on a different host.)

[Helps]

0. Who are you?

JacKie> I couldn't get my forum login for JacKie> to work a while ago so I just created this generic one to post on some issue a few years ago.

1. Old server was paid for by Priitk, it was dedicated and old and depending on him sucked. New server is paid from tw funds (~$50/mo), hence choosing something cheap to avoid running out of cash quickly. Dedicated would be about $150/mo. From memory I think we had about 3 years worth of funds.

What a great guy, it was great while it lasted for all those years.

2. VPS

Pardon my ignorance...what?

3. Ping is fine, varies by location as you'd expect, ploss is the issue.
4. Old server was 0, new server is 0.1% usually, with spikes seemingly coinciding with windows updates. Some people have extreme lag and use VPN to get around it.

Do we have any control over when they do windows updates? Probably not, right?
How does a VPN help with lag?

5. :
A) Change host but keep roughly the same product. Works if the issue is host-specific.
B) Change to a dedicated server. Higher monthly cost. If we change server and host at the same time we wouldn't know which worked.
C) Change from Windows to Linux. Requires changing from Subgame to ASSS game server, which would break bots until substantial dev work completed.

Notes:
- It was a fking nightmare the last time we moved server, it isn't as straightforward as you'd think - although we kept good notes for future reference, we don't want to do it more than absolutely necessary.
- A server move would cause downtime so should be scheduled around leagues.
- The donation system needs work. We need subscriptions too.

Sounds like a huge pain in the ass. Thanks to everyone who worked on the issue last time.

I have reservations with a subscription service as I don't know if my data would be secure. What's the donation process?

I want to sponsor a month but only if there are zone messages that say, "The joy you are currently experiencing in Trench Wars is due to JacKie> paying for server time, please help and donate today!" It might need some word smithing and massaging but the core of a brilliant idea is there...

[2pac]

virtual private server = vps

VPN helps by hopping to other servers to get to the TW IP. Or give it less hops inbetween the host and you.

Im in the Northern VA area and they got amazon web servers out the ass here I'm sure the IP is around east coast looks like NJ to be able to be closer to euro, thats why Qan was saying 5-15ms but amazon web servers in northern va are pretty good.

https://www.vultr.com/

is the provider for tw server.

Had qan took the opportunity and researched these guys they rated F by the BBB

https://www.bbb.org/us/nj/matawan/pr...639/complaints

[Rab]

Helps FYI you can edit the Registered User text under your name, to JacKie> would be a good move.
Q: What is VPS?
A: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Virtual_private_server
Q: Can we control when windows updates happen?
A: No, there's a feature in windows for it, but it doesn't work properly.
Q: How does VPN help with lag?
A: By forcing your traffic to take a different route to the server, avoiding whatever node causes the issue.
Q: What is the donation process?
A: afaik PayPal via trenchwars.org/donations (which appears to be offline atm), or patreon https://www.patreon.com/trenchwars which it seems nobody is using, probably because it takes a big cut and hasn't been promoted.

[qan]

Interesting about the BBB reports. Their customer service hasn't been the most helpful. That seems to be what the complaints are about. I think the F rating would be as a result of not replying to any of the complaints.

Q: Can we control when windows updates happen?

We do actually have control these days, after a lot of work. The operating system does not respect settings and largely does what it wants, which is hilariously stupid in a server environment.


Rather than a VPN I'd recommend a GPN: https://forums.trenchwars.com/support/1341562 VPNs can easily (and usually) make your connection worse rather than better. GPNs compare different paths and choose the best. https://mudfish.net is one of the better ones and is extremely cheap; for just $5 you can improve your SS connection for many months.


For donations, after a recent hack we haven't been able to get the authenticator back up. If you'd like to make a donation please contact staff directly. You can still get the PubBux bonus for it. Just needs to be done manually.


And -- if you need to recover your old forum name, DM me some info on the name (for instance, email used to register + birthday).

[Rab]

n/a.

[SpookedOne]

I vote for moving to ASSS. There are plenty devs around (including myself) that would help out if you asked Qan.

[qan]

Always welcome back, Spooked! Didn't know if you were sticking around/wanted to do more again

[Nipple Nibbler]

The operating system does not respect settings and largely does what it wants, which is hilariously stupid in a server environment.

This is the sole reason why I refuse update to windows 10...

memory I think we had about 3 years worth of funds.

I feel like getting the donations up and running should be top priority, funds will only last so long. Some sort of subscription, even a small one would help tons I'm sure. Don't make anything pay2win but I am sure the community could come up with tons of ideas to make a 5$ subscription worthwhile.

With enough money could we not hire some outside help to assist with stuff'n things?

[Ardour]

When did this server move happen as I now have unplayable lag.

Sunday night after my lag being unplayable for warbird match:


My S2C never went below 6% at any point. I even turned off every device in my house and plugged via wire and sat next to my router.

This problem could be my ISP? Knowing next to nothing how it works in the background I would assume that the trace route through to trenchwars, that the 2nd stop would be my ISP? That shows the cause of the most packetloss.

I did the same trace this morning, no ones online or playing trenchwars other than the 80 bots we have got and my trace route looked like there was a similar main hop that was the cause of almost 100% packetloss:



Yet my lag in game is unaffected:



I went to a website that supposedly does a trace route to a given ip address from several world locations https://tools.keycdn.com/traceroute:



For each location theres always at least one hop that has 100% packetloss.

I have contacted my ISP who have said "Its more than likely down to that game thats the issue"

I don't understand what this second hop is on my trace route and why its always almost 100% packetloss.... but it doesn't mean I have s2c according to ?lag....
It doesn't make a lot of sense... so does more players being online affect my s2c?

I have no idea how to fix this and don't know where else to turn. Help me obi wan, you are my only hope.

[Ardour]

Pictures:

For some reason editing and putting pictures in doesnt work?!