Pub Proposal

[Poseidon]

The issue is people and time. Even if you have solutions to fix (some of) the issues pub has, who's going to make those changes? You need someone with both the knowhow and the time to make said changes. And even then, working on those changes is the least thankful task in the whole of TW, except for moderating perhaps.

It has been a while since I've touched pub personally. And while I had fun adding new flag modes and updating the overlay, working on TWL and TWDT was just so much more rewarding. I haven't fully recovered from the last TWL, and going back to working on pub really doesn't motivate me all that much. Don't get me wrong, I pretty much agree with all that is wrong with pub, and generally have a similar solution in mind, it's just that making those changes will makes those who feel oppressed and limited, even more oppressed and limited, and those who benefit from the changes will find something else wrong to complain about. I've started on a new afk check system months ago, and will try to get that up and running soon. For anything else pub related, I currently don't feel like sinking time into that. Sorry.

its an issue, sure, but the bigger issue is getting the sysop to understand the concept of leadership. in all reality i have about 30 different proposals which could all potentially improve pub - am i supposed to make 30 threads with 30 polls to poll the 20 people who will bother to read it? the way qan is proposing to run things i truly find baffling.

as i mentioned elsewhere, as long as our emperor can give us the green light, i will do everything in my power to try to make it a reality, even if it means learning to code it myself. but initially i would try to seek out people who already know what they are doing and see if we can get something going. it seems like a simple thing to code.... just remove !buy attachmode and !buy purepub, and add a vote function on a timer which could be modeled after the already existing vote module u have for evening teams.


edit:

it's just that making those changes will makes those who feel oppressed and limited, even more oppressed and limited, and those who benefit from the changes will find something else wrong to complain about.

this is important to highlight. i feel it illustrates an essential problem i have with what i perceive as the attitude you and qan and etc take towards pub. basically you are saying something along the lines of "we dont want to upset the 15-20% minority even if pleasing the other 80% would mean a huge boost the the population of both pub and the zone at large".

am i somehow mistaken in this interpretation?

[Lizzo]

^^^^ 1280 message

[Rab]

time to find other games folks. this shit ain't getting fixed with current staff.

[Turban]

It's a shame we don't have the population to support multiple public arenas like in the good old days. I still strongly believe that Leviathans have no place in public unless we were to implement a way to prevent them from flying outside flag room and blasting 10+ players at once. It's not a fun gaming experience and has in the long run hurt our zone. Leviathan itself, or at least the way its being used, goes against the mission statement of our zone.

However it's probably already too late to make such drastic change when our player base is getting close to an all-time low. I liked the old pure public with no !buy items. It was a simple yet enjoyable time.

[Rab]

Levi actually can't even try to base because the automatic tk bot ship changes u. tks are unavoidable with so many noobs in.

And the warp-on death thing means there aren't many players flying up from spawn, so levis don't get challenged. People you do encounter let you live for some reason.

[Lizzo]

Funny how everyone complaining thinks the bombs by the most prolific Levis are random. watch radar and don't suicide shark or stay at red in a pew pew ship in cram and you most likely won't die from attacks you process as random. watch the radar and adapt play style to ships enemy team using? The people complaining here die so easy... No joke 10:1. In spawn, they are 1:3 which is beyond sad. The best players prob 1:2 against Levi in base, which is impressive. They know who they are. They aren't the ones in spawn or weaseling around

[PureOwnage]

Damn, I was hoping to see something about our 52 minute flag game last night from Poseidon.

[Lizzo]

Summary:

Poseidon not talking + SPAWNSTIC and pokecrew not laming + no purepub = more players during week day than all purepub weekend combined
2-3 players came back and stayed after 10 years

Proof is in the pudding and I know pudding

[Poseidon]

Damn, I was hoping to see something about our 52 minute flag game last night from Poseidon.

like i said, i could write a dissertation on the subject full of 100 such examples.

all that aside... the main problem i feel has been plaguing TW since the days of PriitK is a lack of commitment to the competitive aspect of the game. which at the heart of this issue must either lie:

~ 1. a denial or lack of ability to see the obvious reality that the significant majority of players are ultimately driven to play pub because of the competitive engagement able to engender

OR

~ 2. an understanding and acknowledgment of above concept but a refusal to shift the focus of TW pub to accommodate.


the latter made more sense 22 years ago when TW was created as a space for 12 year olds to goof off in an environment where noone was taking things too seriously. when this zone was designed the creators had no conception yet of the competitive potential that would arise out of its unique sense of ship dynamic. and what you ended up with is in my opinion one of the most compelling and technically nuanced leagues in all the history of subspace - ironic for such a blossom to arise out from the murky trenches of the "newbie zone".

and when we could have seized the opportunity 20 years ago and shifted the focus such that we are trying to generate more interest for TWLB, the zone instead has remained stifled by its adherence to priitks legacy. we are talking about a guy here who was never once spotted outside of a leviterr and probably couldnt hit a rock in a wb if you gave him 10 tries.


bottom line is this:

-attachmode = more people playing = better for zone.

- a redesigned levi updated from 1998 would = more people playing = bette rfor zone. surely we can be more creative than this sad excuse for a ship. prox bombs with a smaller radius? lots of ways we could retain and even improve upon the feel of levi while making the game more playable for the other 80% of the population who are not interested in dealing with getting exploded every 10 seconds

- and most importantly, commitment to a cultivation of a well-balanced and engaging competitive pub = more people playing = better for zone
im not so sure the people in charge of making decisions in this zone feel this way. hopefully im wrong

[Rab]

It's because qan thinks that trolls have a right to play the game the way they want, regardless of whether it ruins it for everyone else. Same reason pub is full of chat cancer. Wouldn't be surprised if one of the trolls is qan aliased.

[Lizzo]

Competitive? Lol Poseidon so ez for Levi. Thinks he is the best in game because he suicide pew pew guy. chases everyone in spider and gets the occasional KoT win. It works fine when attacking WB in base because it doesn't matter what health you're at and it stuns them. But since he is at zero health literally all the time he dies from being anywhere near Levi bomb (or any other bomb for that matter). Arguably he was prob gonna die anyway, Levi bomb just eliminated the chance for him to luck out and live. That is what this post is about, he tired of dying and instead of using all that anger to figure out how to get better, he gonna try to kill the game from growing. Ironically, player arguing about making the game more competitive is not learning how to he competitive. Several players play spider and destroy Levi's cause they balance health and position, etc. Low IQ vets won't adapt and that is one the things that will kill game.

[Lizzo]

It's because qan thinks that trolls have a right to play the game the way they want, regardless of whether it ruins it for everyone else. Same reason pub is full of chat cancer. Wouldn't be surprised if one of the trolls is qan aliased.

"Be how I want you to be or you're cancer"

Anti community anti game growth contingent is the cancer . this game needs a formal Levteenth celebration.



But good point, aliases do not contribute to growth.


What about a 3/5 compromise:

Eliminate purepub, but disallow bombing ship and weasel until 6 hour play time also default to team chat.

[Rab]

lol no

[warbirdmaster#1]

I like Pos's idea of letting the people vote if they want purepub + attachmode before the game starts. Let the people who are playing decide which mode should be played. The main reason people play pub is to win the flag game especially if there is a big Pubbux bonus. In a game of 16v16, the flag game becomes very competitive and Levis ruins this. Imagine a FR with 20ppl and few levi bombs comes in and kills everyone. It takes little effort for a Levi to come into base as well to ruin the game. From spawn I could Thrust Up + Rocket to base and !buy rocket and get inside to ruin a game in less than 30s. Change the settings to Levi or let the people vote on which mode should be offered.

[1280]

bottom line is this:
-attachmode = more people playing = better for zone.

In a game of 16v16, the flag game becomes very competitive and Levis ruins this. Imagine a FR with 20ppl and few levi bombs comes in and kills everyone..

Read my post, especially the first parts of it and prove me wrong. Btw.. does either of you even baseterr, ever?