TW Player Ethics

[Fit of Rage]

Asmo, I'm assuming you know a thing or two about ethical development. There is the stage of rewards vs consequence, followed by the stage of respect for rules and authority, and the final stage of intangible questions about what is moral completely unbased on rewards or punishments.

Most players in Trench Wars apparently can't get over that first hill. They see spawning as a reward because it gets them a kill with little effort. Expecting them to act honorably and "fight fair" is a little farfetched.

There's no way to make someone play fair as far as spawning goes, but if you've reached the last level about making your own moral decisions, then you don't have to spawn back. Besides, most of the time if your squad is good enough the other team will be whipped anyway, or vice versa.

[Asmodeus]

Foobarz: The gist of what I got, from that link you provided, made it seem like I'm trying to pull a stunt for personal gain.... This is not the case for I know of other players who dislike and don't care for the spawning. ...And if I got the wrong idea from the articles linked to that address, I apologize.

Spidermage: In the world of SS, I'll do the honorable thing and I'll take my chances, as I have always done in the past years. So I choose option B. And as I noted earlier, those who know I don't spawn happen to not spawn me, unlike those who don't know me and do happen to spawn me.

Za Gophar: I'm not trying to do away with everything unethical in subspace.... It's more about honor than anything else. I know some of you might think honor in a game is stupid...but it so happens to be something the majority of us play on a regular basis. So why not value something such as honor? Why be a jackass to the same player you see every other day or whenever it is you see that player?

[Asmodeus]

Asmo, I'm assuming you know a thing or two about ethical development. There is the stage of rewards vs consequence, followed by the stage of respect for rules and authority, and the final stage of intangible questions about what is moral completely unbased on rewards or punishments.

Most players in Trench Wars apparently can't get over that first hill. They see spawning as a reward because it gets them a kill with little effort. Expecting them to act honorably and "fight fair" is a little farfetched.

There's no way to make someone play fair as far as spawning goes, but if you've reached the last level about making your own moral decisions, then you don't have to spawn back. Besides, most of the time if your squad is good enough the other team will be whipped anyway, or vice versa.

You make very good points, Fit. ...I'm just hoping the whole honor system will catch on sooner or later (more so sooner than later) with other players...tis all.

[Mattey]

If anyone ever passes up on spawning me I turn around and shoot them. Spawning deaths are nigh as avoidable as any other death. Just deal with the one unavoidable one every 3 or 4 elims and try to get as many spawns as you can. To do anything else is scrubbish.

You can't apply universal ethics to everyone in the zone. I don't think spawning is bad and I don't even believe in lames, so who are you to tell me to stop either. Expect it and do it before they do it to you.

[Stabwound]

One thing I find interesting is how the basing community, in general, is a lot more respectful to their fellow players than the warbird or jav communities. Of course there are some exceptions, but generally there are a lot more jav or warbird guys who do rude shit like cheating in games, rampant doublesquadding, insulting/shittalking and generally disrespecting the other players than base playeres that do these things.

Even more interesting is that some squads can be respectable in base, but when they play a jav or wb game, can be pricks just like everyone else in the community. Maybe it's just because you just have to these days because everyone acts like that now.

[za gophar]

Za Gophar: I'm not trying to do away with everything unethical in subspace.... It's more about honor than anything else. I know some of you might think honor in a game is stupid...but it so happens to be something the majority of us play on a regular basis. So why not value something such as honor? Why be a jackass to the same player you see every other day or whenever it is you see that player?

yeah, i would agree with u if i was still addicted.

[Pixelsong]

One thing I find interesting is how the basing community, in general, is a lot more respectful to their fellow players than the warbird or jav communities. Of course there are some exceptions, but generally there are a lot more jav or warbird guys who do rude shit like cheating in games, rampant doublesquadding, insulting/shittalking and generally disrespecting the other players than base playeres that do these things.

I notice the same thing. I guess it's because basing is less of an individual game. The teamwork aspect gives it more of a social character compared to dd/jd's.

[1ight]

Start playing utopia and guild wars, all problems solved! Who plays TWDD anyway.. ooo.. Other solution, start basing instead duelling. Thats what the game is all about, duelling is like listening to Britney Spears, when you want to listen to real music. :wub:

[Miku19]

Please don't compare dueling and basing. They're so different from each other they can't be compared in an objective way.

PS: They're both cool

[Asmodeus]

...I can see how it would be too radical of a change to actually stop spawning, for those that do...so I expect a few to disagree with me and the likes. ...And I'm not trying to preach this train of thought, I'm just trying to pass an idea along.

[Richard Creager]

All the fucking new kids playing like they want to be metalkid ruin dueling completely.

[PH]

Ethics most definitely has a place in war

So in war, if an enemy soldier doesn't see you, you wait for him to turn around and fill you with lead? Yeah. Shit, why didn't I think of that?

Back on subject, though, Asmodeus, as much as I like your idea, you're not going to turn Subspace players into upstanding members of the online gaming world. There's always going to be someone whining about what they perceive as "lame" because they got beaten, and instilling humility into hundreds of players is all but impossible. The only players that really contribute anything worthwhile to the game don't play like little bitches and whine when they die anyway.

[Verthanthi]

Morality and war discussed by a former strategic theorist for the US Marine Corps.

William Gibson has an interesting analysis of the article here

[Ardour]

Way too idealistic. Too many players view Subspace as a war, and as I'm sure you know ethics have no place in a war. You shoot and kill, or you get shot and die. Until you find some way to remind all of them that Subspace, competitive as it might be, is in fact a game and not a war, you're going to have a lack of ethics, and as such have spawning/"laming"/etc.

Good luck re-educating these psychos though.

even in war theres honour. for example if your one on one fighting a player in elim or in a dd, its shitty to spawn and no ones impressed but the sad people that have no ethics. you arent going to change these idiots because their simple minds get pleasure from these acts. when it happens to them its a total different story and thats how they always try defend themselves. "spawn or be spawned"

id like to think im not a spawner and i try think before i kill. if i was in elim and some one appeared id boost by but if i was pissed at something or in a mood and just didnt care, id spawn away without any feeling.

[PH]

even in war theres honour. for example if your one on one fighting a player in elim or in a dd, its shitty to spawn and no ones impressed but the sad people that have no ethics. you arent going to change these idiots because their simple minds get pleasure from these acts. when it happens to them its a total different story and thats how they always try defend themselves. "spawn or be spawned"

True enough, but I think you're mixing war and Subspace a bit too much. If you get spawnkilled in Subspace, shit happens. It's a game. You respawn and continue on. I realize 99% of the people that do it are just cunts who don't give a shit about the game and only want to win, but sometimes you really do have no choice if you want to survive. Now, I don't believe in "war ethics". In a war, soldiers are packing actual weapons and looking to wipe out the enemy, so the rule "kill or be killed" comes into play. A soldier won't wait for the enemy to turn around, spot him and get his gun ready. He'll ventilate his ass right there, because if he doesn't he's dead.

The point is, Subspace and war are entirely different, and in an ideal scenario they'd be treated as such. Some players (understandably, considering its highly competitive nature) treat the game as an actual war, though, and there will always be players that do this. It's a part of the game, albeit a shitty one, which is why I've been dodging pubs and elims lately. Like I said before, the ones that spawn and cackle, then get spawned and whine contribute jack shit to the game, so forget about them and just play.