On the subject of Trench Wars

[Kings]

well it seems like cptn afk took some part of staff work so pl can focus on twl more. Let's hope P_l works hard.

[Darkmoor]

While we are on the subject about Trench Wars. Just something that came to my mind while reading these few threads about recent events. Mostly MHO also.

If we want Subspace to run for many years to come, I think that the main problem in the (near?) future will be to get new players interested. Most if not all decisions that change the gaming experience should go towards this goal. Subspace is now old, the golden days are a memory. As Trench Wars is the biggest zone, it is more important to keep it attractive. Since it's a high probability that potential new players will go to the biggest zone first.

Accomplishment of this begins from the top (staff). Things need to run smoothly, you need good and dedicated people to do development and keep the zone running. A big zone needs better management and more efficient staff than smaller zones. If things begin to rot from the inside it will sooner or later spread. All this recent talk about staff, I'm not going into it as I'm unaware of how things are really done.

Next would be the development of events, leagues and pubs. Pubs are extremely important if you think of possible new players that are trying this game. You shouldn't try to make pubs something too fancy. After all, they are there to attract new players and also for the enjoyment of current players. If you compare the Trench Wars pubs to other zones equivalent, TW pubs (mainly the map) are nothing. The only things that keeps the players are the settings and general enjoyment.

Leagues then. TWL is serious and should be. TWD is not that serious as there really isn't any real competition in it. It is there for players to have fun and compete in a non-serious way. Currently it only becomes serious during TWL qualifications since squads are picked straight from the TWD ladders (which IMO is flawed). So keep TWL serious and TWD fun! I took this already up in one other thread but I'll do it again, as it is a good example. The recent changes in matchbot's in wbduel/base to give +1 death on lagouts. I think that if this is going to be implemented in TWD, it will perhaps reduce the speccing/quitting. But also as a side-effect, reduce the amount of people that play TWD. And because of this, perhaps even result in some players leaving Subspace altogether. This is not the wanted result.

Development of other events. I'd say that TW is somewhat overloaded with different events. As much as they're hosted, there are always some that are (very) rarely hosted, including some very good events. So the development of new events isn't really that important at the moment. Unless you aim for something more than a single event. Take TWRC for example, if it ever gets really going. Personally I hate it :P. But surely there are many that would enjoy it.

That's it, nothing new really. More like a reminder of what will happen sooner or later, depending on how things are done.

[Annux]

oh look another longwinded post about nothing

how little things have changed

[qan]

I'll try to systematically reply to this in such a way as to be brief and still on topic. Bold-faced are the topics.

Also, thank you for putting in your thoughts, Epi. It sounds like you've gone through a lot of this before, and the insight you give into the whole issue, especially experiencing it over many years, is invaluable.


Regarding Smod inactivity, I understand your point made as a retired smod who is essentially retaining the position because you've put in your time and hard work, shown you can be trusted, and don't wish to quit for good. That works just fine, as long as it doesn't hold up progress. Does it? Hard to say.

DoCk> made the claim that he doesn't really run the zone, that it's really the smods that do it. I may be a bit off base here, but I would only count 3 smods as "active" -- Cpt., P_L and lnx (and I'm not entirely sure about lnx). Can add Ari in there, too, if you would group him as an smod rather than sysop. Either way, you have a zone, from the sound of things, being run by an smod team that is pretty much inactive. The active members of it are only active on occasion at best, to boot. But the idea remains in DoCk>'s mind that this team is running TW. Does this not imply that he believes the team is active to a large degree? Else, he would claim that upper staff really does not run the zone, that it's just lower staff running most everything, which I think is a bit closer to the truth. While he did mention that he was bolstering the smod team "within the next few weeks" (quoted about October), in the meantime the zone still suffers from heavy organizational problems and will continue to do so by its excessive understaffing in the higher ranks. This implicit trust needed for an smod takes time to build, and meanwhile, Trench Wars groans.

Do you need to be an smod to attempt to make a positive change in the administration of TW? Do you need to be a mod? ER? ZH? If yes is the answer to any of these, why? Why should anything be taken less seriously depending upon rank? Should an idea of this kind not be based on its own merits? If an idea is a poor one, there should be as little problem in saying no to a sysop as to someone who just started playing last Tuesday.


As to set rules, you refuted my claim that ban procedures are not clear, saying that they have been clearly defined. And yet, people still argue over what constitutes racism. I've heard of mods telling people that it's legal to say anything in PMs or chats (though in reality, it's just unenforceable). The extremely open-ended and very banable offense "discrimination" is not clearly defined except to say what constitutes it. While discrimination based on sexual preference is just as illegal as a string of racial slurs, I think most staff members would laugh if someone were banned for saying "faggot." And this is just one rule. We have extreme ambiguity in our rule system and how to enforce it, and it all needs clarification. This is a project I'd been working on, but in the end was given the impression that I should leave it alone and go code a bot. Only problem is, nobody was going to take up that slack.

You mentioned the TWL rules and procedures you initially wrote -- excellent examples of how things should be done. I was very impressed on reading those, as nearly everything imaginable is covered, and in language that leaves little room for argument. At the moment, banning procedures and hosting guidelines are ambiguous and vague, and most other procedures aren't written at all. I would say that right now there's a very large need for staff position dedicated entirely to this sort of work.


(I believe) I disagree with you on the appeals process. At the moment, there's no public knowledge of how to make an appeal, nor any sort of system to handle appeals that isn't known to just the appeals clerk or appropriate staffer. At present you send off an email and hope you get a reply, which doesn't always happen. While I agree that there's no need to make individual cases public, the process by which appeals are handled should be common knowledge. This ensures fairness and trust, which isn't likely to be there when nobody knows how it's all done, including most members of staff.


In reference to your comment on ideas, I do agree that people need to have the initiative to work at their own ideas. New events, event bots and leagues fall into this category. Telling upper staff, "Hey, you should make my idea happen" doesn't do a hell of a lot. However, this rule doesn't apply to meta-game ideas (dealing with administration of the game, and issues not relating directly to game elements). If you're working inside the system to develop the game, great -- no need to change the system. If you're working outside the system to develop the meta-game, you need to have the cooperation of upper staff in order to do so, and that's near impossible to get. The reason is because there's no system in place for changing the system, and so nobody knows what to do when a change needs to be made. Almost every form of government has a system for modifying its own basic operating procedures. It's a simple necessity of cultural evolution. Yet such a thing doesn't exist in TW. This is the first step.


As to the much-abused Pure_Luck, well, here we go again. You suggested that he might be overloaded, having two large portfolios to deal with. As a matter of record in the TWL forums, I believe it was Rodge who was handling the majority of the TWL rule reworkings for this season. In fact, if you read the forums you'd think that Rodge was running the show, not P_L. RR had to ask the "very busy" PL I believe 4-5 times to comment on the set of rules for the new TWL season, and when he did so it was a one-line response. You shouldn't have to ask the main league op to comment on new league rules multiple times. You shouldn't have to ask once; he should just do it, because as you said, it's one of his big portfolio items which takes up so much of his time. Here's another example. For the new TWL bot specification, Rodge was again the person who doled out the specifications for the new hub bot system of TWL. Then I had a lot of trouble even figuring out what changes needed to be made from the old bot -- what kind of bugs to expect. I think PL said something like "increase stability," which while being right on the money as to what needed to be rectified, gave no concrete specifics I could use. I found this part of his portfolio to be exceedingly weak, as I have also found his portfolio on Dean of Staff to be (for reasons listed in other threads). The question is, then, how much time does he spend on either one? The scope of both isn't defined. Nobody knows what the actual jobs entail, so nobody has any right or ability to say he's either slacking or working very hard. All we can see are outside examples. Only he knows in the end, and if the examples reflect how much he's actually working, I think that stepping down from one or both positions would be the right thing to do in the best interests of Trench Wars.


This leads into the hiring policy. Bring back the application process, I couldn't agree more. This whole "if you ask to become staff, your chances are hurt" business only encourages people to 1) lie and pretend they don't want staff, and 2) suck up to those who do the hiring. And we wonder why staff hires repressed sycophants.

In almost all employment situations, you don't have a large past relationship with your interviewer. A Dean of Staff that is a socially active member of the community is a poor choice, in my opinion. P_L is what you'd call a strong personality, which has its good and its bad. He is a passionate man, and can be lovable and rash and funny and extremely mean. This means that he has strong relationships with players, as good friends and terrible enemies. He isn't a passive observer that attempts to see people outside of his sphere of perception; he is totally immersed in it. From a psychological perspective, you're just asking for him to abuse in hiring practices. I don't agree with your hiring analogy between TW Staff and real life. It's not a very logical or fair comparison at all, because the difference between how TW hiring operates and a real job hiring would take place is vastly different. I think we should try to mimic real life a bit better, despite its impracticality. A small interviewing panel wouldn't hurt, perhaps made up of active smods and high mods, something that required more than the opinion of one person to decide on the quality of staff for months and even years into the future.


Finally, yes, DoCk>'s argument: the results speak for themselves. They absolutely do. We have a zone here that with an extremely motivated, talented and interested staff a few years ago was able to overcome the problems of an administration that was developing as it went. But as TW has grown in size, its system of government hasn't grown with it. Motivated staff have left frustrated, up in arms, and we're left with mostly inactivity in the realms of upper staff. The zone is still running, but it's not running better than it was before. It's running a lot worse. That's called decay, and with it comes the scent of death under its wings.

[Lucon]

did i catch you while you were talking? mb

You've got to be the n00biest n00b I've ever seen.

[SooN]

You've got to be the n00biest n00b I've ever seen.

Also another vast improvement would be to..

1. Either alter the next version of continuum to filter out words such as newb,noob,suck,ez... etc etc. OR

2. Make a bot that asteriks * the words like other mmog's. I.E. Runescape

This would probaly encourage favorable sportsmanship and hopefully bring in a bigger population. I've read many articles and individuals critique on the game and they all say the same thing. Are player base is horrible especially when every other kill you get a "newb" or "ez".

[NaiLed]

but that would be no fun. i find it amusing when people get pissed off and start saying "u nooob" and stuff.

should have the option of making your own word ignore/censor list though

[SooN]

Maybe a ignore2.txt? :greedy: Would sure make a lot of people disappear , especially those whose vocab's are that of which is stated above.

[Tyson]

I support Epi's way of hiring staff members. Have an application for those interested, make it look like a real job because after all it is a job to some extent.

-Tys

[Sharpshot]

I though he was Summing it up?!?

[dchao]

Wow, long read.
I agree with most of Epi's points. One hard spot may be the fact that staff isn't as "fun" to people as it used to be. After staffers get in, it becomes a hassle instead of a hobby. Implementing standards is better for the gamers of TW but it just makes the thought of being staff less appealing.

[Hero*]

I support Epi's way of hiring staff members. Have an application for those interested, make it look like a real job because after all it is a job to some extent.

-Tys

hey vedran, are you coming back? I miss u budd.

[Cops]

hmm who ran season 5? And no you're wrong there's tons of talent and there's tons of players who generally have gotten better at the game. When you ran leagues they sucked just as much as it's going to suck with Pure_Luck behind the wheel. Where the fuck is stupid-gerbil when you need him. <_<

[Project]

Randedl posted before that the bots have harmed the zone. I agree, but yet again this is a two-pronged fork.

ROFLCOPTER. two-pronged fork. ahahahah. Did you mean double-edged sword? lol

[Mr. Peanuts]

Seeing as many people can't get picked in ?go base because they're not good enough for the usually ignorant and arrogant captains, I think there should be a pub designated for proper basing, no safe zones, and a certain amount of ships allowed on each freq; 1 terr, 3 or 4 javs, 2 sharks etc. Might be hard trying to find a good balance, but I believe this could be a great hit and many basing talents could be discovered.