On the subject of Trench Wars

[Force of Nature]

I can only speak for the bots aspect where I believe qan is related to.

I was incharge for a brief period. I assume about 2 weeks - month or so to get certain aspects of TWL bots working. Qan if you wanted some information on the previous TWL bots talk to me or 2Dragons who coded the first version. I've been inactive for some personal reasons for a while now and am slowly getting back into doing things.

Coding bots for TW is very hard. Not in respect the difficulty in coding the bot but to actually get it up and tested. Everyone on the coding scene knows that testing is where most of the bugs are found. I was fortunate in this aspect due to the fact that the people in power to upload the code were in my squad and I was able to get in touch and get the required problems resolved with relative ease - Hence I was able to accomplish the vast amount of work I did in a relatively less time. Now, others in my situation aren't able to get the resources as I was and I can see the frustration that they would encounter. This definetely has to be addressed.

Since more and more of the zone starts to become automated (not necessarily a bad thing and some suggest) the power structure that relates to coding bots need to be more organised. Here in lies the problem. A person with uploading power can do a great amount of harm to the zone if they are untrustable. Which leads me to agree with epi on the whole trust makes the upper staff issue.

However, I can see the other side of the equation. If I was incharge of the bots right now. It seems that the people who can get things in motion (as in uploading bot changes) are fairly inactive and therefore it take a lot of time to get things done. Therefore, I believe that this is one position that needs to have an active sMod incharge. With the advent of the CVS repository, things got a lot better than they were before and improvements are slowly progressing. I understand what qan is asking to a certain degree since I have not been on staff as long like epi. But I also think that radical changes all at once are probably not very realistic. As epi pointed out, this is a volunteer organisation. And even as a volunteer organisation the mean age level in this organisation is very low. Dedication to their work differs greatly between people. Terms such as living up to commitments aren't taken seriously by lots. Therefore, skill although present isn't that easily obtained when sifting through the people.

[MetalKid]

I should join staff after I graduate. I've been in TW 7 years in june, and I've never been on staff in any degree. I should also help program the bots since I'm going to college for programming (and i'm graduating in May). Though, the bot core seems very overwhelming when trying to make sense of the whole thing (I'd prolly need some sort of specific bot to take a look at to get a feel for it). But whatever.

[Existenz87]

I started playing Continuum in 2003 and back then the zone would get maybe 800ppl on and now if we're lucky we get 700. Granted, this game is aging but, is there anyone doing any advertising for Continuum? Putting up ads on online gaming sites? This is the best free online game on the net. It blows the Runescape out of the water.

[MetalKid]

I started playing Continuum in 2003 and back then the zone would get maybe 800ppl on and now if we're lucky we get 700. Granted, this game is aging but, is there anyone doing any advertising for Continuum? Putting up ads on online gaming sites? This is the best free online game on the net. It blows the Runescape out of the water.

If you wanted to this, TW people, hell, all of the Zones, have to go vote for this game on various gaming sites such as http://www.mpogd.com. If we get into the top (which we could easily do if everyone cast their vote once per day... Someone could make a macro or something so it wouldn't take much effort on our part), then more people will at least take a look at it... Right now, those sites are filled with gay games that are all browser based and, to me, boring as hell. We should take advantage of that.

[Existenz87]

Thanks metal kid. I'm going to do that.

[Leaf]

I agree with most of what you said Epi, well formulated heh =).

Haha metal 4 staff

[Leaf]

did i catch you while you were talking? mb

ROFL =)!

[ToKeD]

DoCk>

I have come up with an idea in regards to rules and regulations. We believe that it would be best if new rules and ideas are brought up, similiar, in fashion to that of the U.S. government. There would be a comity of staff personal that represent their according position. The comity would consist of 4 smods, 3 mods and 2 ER's. This makes it so that there are an uneven number of congress members, so that things voted or discussed upon cannot result in a tie. Each different position would represent the rest of the people in that type of position. They would bring to the group topics of discussion that their position is concerned with. For example, ER representatives would bring to the group, concepts and ideas that involve hosting or somthing similiar. It would be conversed amongst the group, and then those representatives would be responsible to disperse the information amongst their fellow members of staff (of their position type).
Because ZH's will only have 3-4 weeks before they become an ER, we will have one of the trainers report to them. We believe, that because each staff position will be represented, (excluding ZH's) everyones concerns will be dealt with accordingly. This will help greatfully with the lack of communication between upper and lower staff. Each representative will be the "Middleman" in which they are in charge of how they establish communication between members of staff that are the same position as themselves. If any rules are deemed excessive or unnecessary by DoCk> then the congress will abide by his notion and take his words as the final say in all matters.

I believe this can go as far as it needs to, it could only deal with rules and regulations, or, it could in fact also deal with the repremanding of staff members for abuse or the promotion of staffers. The possibilites of a TW congress are endless and in effect, more effective, it could be used for much more.

I believe this idea, of a TW congress will be beneficial for multiple reasons:

- Increased communication amongst staff members of all sorts.

- All opinions will be brought to one table, with staff from all ends commenting.

- Rules and regulations will be discussed, reviewed and critiqued on a regular basis.

- Representation for each position of staff. The representation makes sense as it is setup, because the smod's have the most experience and influence, they have the most representatives. Mods have the second most representatives, because they have the second most influence, experience and notariety. ERs will have the 3rd most representatives because they have the 3rd most influence and experience.

- A more democratic system of governing for the game, rather than that of a dictatorship (in sense).

- Additional positive effects of this concept will come along, depending on how much influence TW congress is given (It depends whether TW congress is established only to regulate and discuss rules and policies, or if it is assigned more tasks, such as I those stated above)

- The advantages of nine opinions over one person are obvious. One person alone establishing rules is to say the least, insufficient. Their opinions and ideas cannot effectively reflect the wants and needs everyone. The U.S. Supreme Court has nine justices that work together to, in a sense establish laws and determine boundaries and guidelines. We believe that the TW congress wil function in a similiar aspect to that of the U.S. Supreme Court.

In conclusion, we can establish Trench Wars staff like that of the U.S. government, with DoCk> residing as the leader of the executive branch, TW Congress acting like the legislative branch and/or the Judicial branch. (There could be an additional council that is in charge of recruitment of new staff, or TW Congress could deal with this as well) We believe with this type of setup, people will have a much greater say, and Trench Wars will function more like that of a democratic system. Alot of these ideas are up for constructive criticism, though we believe that establishing a Congress of staff members functioning like described above, will ultimately result in increased communication, productivity and in turn have the rules function like that of the U.S. Constitution (constantly changing and adapting as new things arise). Some things we have not included in this post because we believe it is necessary to hear other input before we can comment on it, so please give constructive critism and add ideas (minus bashing on the U.S. government and its comparison to this process, as it is just a comparison).


I origanaly posted this on staff's private forums most liked the idea. Then i had a chat with dock he denied my request so fast with little words that i will post.

-lower staff has to go out and do somthing positive to make a change (notice i tried this and got rejected very fast)

-Work hard and get smod then you have a better chance to change things (well he just counter acted what he told me previously)

So whats on my mind is simple Does the upper staff want good cumminication with lower staff in desicion making to have everyones point of views to make it smoother and have everyone understand everything discussed, or does upper staff wanna be power hungry and do what they want leaving the lower staff clueless until there in a situation were we dont know the current rule or the proper procedure...

Tell me what you think since in my eyes the public should have a say in alotta things also since this game is not for staff ,and staff is supose to be working for the public


by the way if i hear any shit from upper staff about this post then that will just prove my point about power hunger since i didnt even want power just a say in what happens to the game i play in and work for

[wadi]

Merged with Epinephrine's thread. Lets try to consolidate all this reform talk in one place please.

[StarKitty]

7) Hiring policy

I'd like to see some concrete way of hiring. Have applications for people to fill out who want to join staff. Check them out, have an interview with them, and see if they work out. Do it like the real world. No more random recruiting unless you have someone who plays 24/7 and just simply knows most competent people in the game. In the past I disagreed with having an application process simply because that didn't let you get a good feel for people. But I've changed my mind. Make getting staff like getting a real job, maybe then people will take it more seriously, and then everyone will get a fair chance of getting in.

As for people who don't get in because P_L doesn't like you? Tough luck. I mean it. You wouldn't get a job in real life if the boss didn't like you. You wouldn't get into a squad in SS if the squad leader didn't like you. You won't get on staff if the dean doesn't like you. It's a fact of life. Ideally we'd find someone who is purely objective and doesn't hate anyone, but that's never going to happen.

Problem with this way of recruiting is that there would be 500 applications at any one time... probably more with 400 people playing the game usually and around 300 of them being unknowns.
You can't expect PL to interview all of these people... Or even to read all of the applications..
Even with a dedicated team that is still a LOT of work.
The problem is that i don't think PL communicates with the unknowns down below as much as some of the staff do.
There are a lot of people out there who would commit a lot to the game, they're just waiting to be discovered.

The only problem is that there's no easy way to discover them apart from reccomendations from the staff... which mostly isn't listened to anyway.

[Mr. Peanuts]

I agree with what I said.

[Ephemeral]

As an outsider looking in for a number of years, I would add the following generic thoughts about building a quality staff. (Forgive me if some of these things already exist.)

1. Define and communicate the TW Mission Statement, whatever it may be. This is usually established by the highest ranking person in the organization or staff. It is also this person's responsibility to make sure it is something that is always being strived for. Frankly and reading some of the posts lately, I am not sure if growth of the Zone is part of the current objective or not. But whatever the highest level objectives are, they should be defined and communicated to everyone.

2. Define and communicate the PLAN to hit the objectives defined in the Mission Statement. The quantified plan is usually established and the responsibility of the second highest tier in the organization. It might read something like, 'since growth of the Zone is an objective, we expected a 10% growth in the number of players every year. And the plan to make this happen is further development of new events, further refinement of staff policies, yadda yadda yadda...'

3. Implementation of the PLAN then becomes the road map for others on the staff. They become responsible for making it all happen. Now note a few subtle things about this. The plan has to be communicated and understood by everyone on the staff. Then job definitions HAVE to be in place for all positions so each person can be held responsible for their role in the plan. Some kind of review process should exist for making sure that people are doing what they are supposed to be doing. Additionally, a very clear understanding for autonomy and responsibility must exist. If you make someone responsible for something, you HAVE to give them control of it. You can not have the a higher level person coming in and trying to micromanage lower level staff members.


Note the how each of the above 'builds' upon the preceding point. If you end up discussing issues like 'is the objective to see growth in TW?' then that will undermine everything else. Think of it this way....like being a mountain climber group. First, the mission statement says that 'we want to climb the world's 3 highest mountains'. Then the plan must be put into place, it defines which mountains are to be climbed, the routes that will be used, and all the logistics that have to be put into place. These tasks are assigned to various third tier staffers, one guy is responsible for the managing the Sherpas, one guy for the food provisions, one guys for the route that will be taken up the first mountain, one guy for establishing the Base camps, etc. The second tier staffer make sure that the plan is being followed (that third tier staffers are doing their assignments correctly). The highest level staffer makes sure that the plan follows the objective of climbing the 3 highest mountains. The highest level staffer should not ever be concerning himself with whether or not there will be enough tents or O2 bottles for everyone.


Now back to TW. My opinion is that it sounds like not everything is in place, people are asking about the overall objectives of TW, people are frustrated with the staff organization and lack of any continual improvement processes. I see little value in pointing fingers at particular people. I am afraid that with out the 'complete' structure outlined above, then there is little value in trying to make things better. Going back to my analogy, it is like spending lots of time/effort hauling up supplies to a certain base camp only to find out that this isn't the route we are going to use to get to the top. Or worse yet, this isn't even the mountain we are supposed to be climbing. The Sherpas are quitting and going home.

Perhaps the 'mission statement' of TW is to simply let it 'wander' around with no direction, just simply maintain it, then continual improvement is not important. But one thing is for sure, without this structure in place it just about guarantees ultimate failure.

[Epinephrine]

Eph you're absolutely correct. In fact the 'mission statement' was the first thing THE PUSHER and I thought up of for TWL in season 6 when we took over, so I agree with you that a mission statement with a specific goal is important. TW has no such thing, and it's purely because those at the very top have actually never communicated any goals for the zone clearly.

So for all upper staff, all we know is that 'bots are good' and if we want stuff we beg for it until someone agrees. Since everyone wants something different, those who beg better get what they want, and thus the zone has no direction whatsoever.

The thing with that is, the sysops need to figure that out and tell us, and if they don't care to, then the next level (the upper staff) needs to figure out what to do with what they have, which is a blanket improvement in all areas that are possible without direct sysop intervention.

[Leaf]

The only problem is that there's no easy way to discover them apart from reccomendations from the staff... which mostly isn't listened to anyway.

I'm going to have to comment you on that because it's not true heh. Most recruits which I have seen have started with recommendations. Guys/girls who I have wanted staff I have recommended and sure some of them got it, maybe not by my single recommend alone but still.

[Jeansi]

2. Define and communicate the PLAN to hit the objectives defined in the Mission Statement. The quantified plan is usually established and the responsibility of the second highest tier in the organization. It might read something like, 'since growth of the Zone is an objective, we expected a 10% growth in the number of players every year. And the plan to make this happen is further development of new events, further refinement of staff policies, yadda yadda yadda...'

3. Implementation of the PLAN then becomes the road map for others on the staff. They become responsible for making it all happen. Now note a few subtle things about this. The plan has to be communicated and understood by everyone on the staff. Then job definitions HAVE to be in place for all positions so each person can be held responsible for their role in the plan. Some kind of review process should exist for making sure that people are doing what they are supposed to be doing. Additionally, a very clear understanding for autonomy and responsibility must exist. If you make someone responsible for something, you HAVE to give them control of it. You can not have the a higher level person coming in and trying to micromanage lower level staff members.

Epi obviously supports Kerry so I agree with him on everything he has said.