A Proposal to Greatly Improve Our Subspatial Dystopia

[T Mac-1]

Great job Jason i'm impressed. I absolutely LOVE the idea of divisions so staffers (no names) are not so overloaded with things like TWL that they fail to do their other duties properly. The one problem i found with your proposal is just...the NUMBER of staff there would be. If you have the OCD's consisting of <ZH>'s,<ZH> team leaders, <ER>'s, <ER> team leaders, and mods. Then LMD's consisting of TWD-op and TWL-ops. THEN you have the honchos and advisors and policy/prodecure editors...then staff just has to many people.

[Latrine]

And thus, bureaucracy was born. Seriously Jase, all that is way too complicated. Things like Trench Wars should be run like they are now, through fascism.

[splatz]

Jappeuuh, don't be a fucking moron.

not only does he have good ideas but it's also presented well.

[wadi]

Sorry jas, I understand where you're trying to go with this, but all these groups and subdivisions and team leaders and shit... it's not a big enough organization to need this much complexity. I'm not saying the ideas are bad, but you've got two more pages to this whole scheme? Can't it be simplified?

[Project]

The system actually looks larger than it would be. Remember that a lot of these positions would still overlap (at least I think they should). Almost everyone in the League Management Division would also be a Moderator, and part of the On Call Division. The GTD, or Go-To-Division, consists of people that are actually just the leaders of the OCD.

If the system is still too big, I suggest cutting ZHs. Having never been on staff, I can't speak authoratatively, but how hard is it for everyone to answer a help call? With an update of the bots, it will be even easier. If answering help calls becomes EVERYONE's responsibility, then the existence of the ZH is null.

Basically, these are the positions staff would have under the system I outlined above and in my previous post, from lowest to highest.

1. <ER>, <LR> (May also overlap, ridiculous to separate these two if someone is talented enough to host properly), Mods, Miscellaneous assistants (programmers, website people, etc.), Policy Writers/Updaters
2. Team Leaders
3. Smods (basically the advisors, consisting of epi, 2d, mythrandir, arilou, etc.)
3. Dock and Prittk

As you can see, the new system would most likely not be a significant increase in man power. Simply a reorganization of the power structure. For this to work, people would have to hired specifically for their job, as the standard promotion from <ER> to Mod would be unnecessary - it would be more of a transfer. I assume Jas will outline this in a future post.

In this ladder, the advisors would have some direct powers. Guys like those mentioned should have more than just influence at their disposal. Unfortunately, giving them direct power (although perhaps not a set list of responsibilities) would cause some people I would have liked to be advising to stay away from staff (Brookus mainly). However, I think that the guys mentioned posess the ability to collect and manage the thoughts and opinions of the more intellectual of the TW population.

[Jason]

It comes across as more than it really is when you just read about it, wadi. I feel it's definitely feasible. It's just going to take some work (the very thing no one seems to want to do right now) to get off the ground. And I'm sure it can be simplified once I get it all out of my head and let a bunch of people tear it apart. Like I said, this version of the proposal is by no means final. Revision is key.

Project, the divisions wouldn't be absolute. They are there to lighten the workload on the individual and separate power, but of course you'd have to build some flexibility into the system. Common sense would dictate that if a situation arises such as you described, you'd get someone to cover. We would simply have to try to avoid those situations as much as possible, and with a system like this, I think we could. As for the advisors and the policy dudes, well, to be honest I wasn't quite sure where to stick them when I was writing what I've posted. In retrospect, putting them in the executive division was certainly a mistake as it sends the message that I think both positions should carry a large degree of clout. I wouldn't have the policy editors acting on their own. I said the following in my proposal, "These guys would have to be articulate, intelligent people capable of collecting the ideas/opinions/suggestions/advice/etc of their peers (GTD/honchos/advisors) and putting all of it into plain English. Notice, I’m not saying that they would be making the rules per say. They would simply evaluate the current crop of documents, and if they noticed a rule or procedure that seemed to be outdated, they would bring it to the attention of their peers. Once it had been talked over, they would then proceed to either modify or possibly even get rid of the rule/procedure." So you see, I would have the policy guys working WITH the GTD, not above it. And on to the advisors, yeah, they definitely shouldn't be considered executives either. I was thinking we would only go to them in cases where we were really stuck. For example, let's say we got particularly bogged down trying to iron out a rule for TWL. Well, maybe we could go to the advisory board and bounce our ideas off of Epi, or PUSHER, or someone of the sort. Then again, maybe we don't even need a group of advisors? What do you guys think?

Vyk, I simply didn't get my message across clearly. I wouldn't take what the advisors have to say as the "ultimate truth." They are there simply as an aide, a resource if you will. The GTD wouldn't have to go to the advisors. They would only use the resource if they felt the need to. Then again, as I just said above, maybe we don't even need advisors. I need more feedback on this, and as you said, it needs to be thought out in greater detail. Oh, and I sure as shit wouldn't want to be an advisor. I'd rather be involved in either dev work or maybe (big maybe) policy editing. I haven't gotten to my spiel on dev work yet though, so stay tuned.

Tmac, you're right, sort of. I think we could manage to keep each division trim enough so as not to get a staff body that's out of control numbers-wise. Just for the sake of argument, let me run through a quick numbers game and compare it to the current numbers we're looking at.

ZH Team leader + 20 ZH's below him/her = 21 staffers for the ZH subdivision of the OCD.
ER Team Leader + 20 ER's below him/her = 21 staffers for the ER subdivision of the OCD.
Mod Team Leader + 15 Mod's below him/her = 16 staffers for the Mod subdivision of the OCD.
Total OCD staffers = 58.
Currently we have a total of 45 staffers listed on TW.org as being either ZH's or ER's. Add on the current number of mods not listed and I'm sure we're already around the same number.

(By the way, keep in mind that the team leaders double as members of the GTD.)

Moving along, the only thing that is really going to add any substantial size as compared to what we currently have is the advent of an LR. Let's say we have 15-20 of those. That's going to add on a sizeable chunk. Here's the catch though, an LR would only need to exist, that is have powers, be on a staff chat of some sort, stay in the loop and what have you, in and around a TWL season. They would be just like seasonal help at a retail store. I really don't think adding on just a dozen or two more staffers on a seasonal basis is going to make for an overcrowded staff.

I'm going to be very busy over the next three to four days attending to a super fine girlie who's coming to visit me from the Midwest. I'll try to stay on top of this thread as much as I can though, and hopefully by the weekend, say Saturday evening or Sunday morning, I'll have at least one more section of this proposal ready for everyone to pick apart. I'll also try to reword some of what I have, taking into consideration the points that have been addressed thus far.

By the way, if I could get someone in on this with me, that'd be great. Vyk, I hope you're up to it because you'd be a prime candidate. I don't know as I can manage this thing all on my own because it's going to get pretty hairy soon, once I add more sections and start making revisions based on feedback and all that jazz.

[Jason]

Yeah, Proj gets it, and he did a much better job than I of explaining that you wouldn't see a large increase in the size of staff.

You're also correct about hiring people specifically for their job. Proj. The only sort of promotions we'd have would be to that of Team Leader and perhaps League Op, that sort of thing. You would be able to transfer should you wish (and be capable of doing so ability-wise), but I'll be getting into that when I write up my thoughts for other sections of the proposal.

[Broly]

:bigups: Now, the harder part is getting all that into affect

[duel pasta]

Jappeuuh, don't be a fucking moron.

I knew the next post was gonna be a flame, but I don't care

[Mr. Peanuts]

That is because you're really cool and smart.

[Reaver]

A common misconception behind <ZH>'s is the fact that they are only <ZH>'s to answer help calls. A major reason behind them being <ZH>'s is yes, to take help calls, but at the same time they are <ZH>'s to prepare them for <ER>'s. You can't just throw away <ZH>'s and automatically make people <ER>'s. These people need time to understand all they can about the zone. They need time to get accustomed to how staff itself works. Last but not least, they need time to understand all of the commands required to successfully host. In conclusion, keep <ZH>'s but people shouldn't be <ZH>'s for so long. Just another one of my ideas that all too often went unheard or got shot down. <_<

[Lucon]

i think getting rid of cloakers would fix everything.

I think you're a dumbcrap.

[Reclusion]

A common misconception behind <ZH>'s is the fact that they are only <ZH>'s to answer help calls. A major reason behind them being <ZH>'s is yes, to take help calls, but at the same time they are <ZH>'s to prepare them for <ER>'s. You can't just throw away <ZH>'s and automatically make people <ER>'s. These people need time to understand all they can about the zone. They need time to get accustomed to how staff itself works. Last but not least, they need time to understand all of the commands required to successfully host. In conclusion, keep <ZH>'s but people shouldn't be <ZH>'s for so long. Just another one of my ideas that all too often went unheard or got shot down. <_<

Learning commands is not that difficult. If it takes someone more than a few days to learn them, you obviously don't want someone that fucking stupid on staff. And last time I checked, you don't need a goofy-ass tag on your name to signify that you're in the learning stages. All the <ZH> tag seems to be is just another way to make people feel as though their online existences mean something. Go TW status symbols!

[Epinephrine]

Last but not least, they need time to understand all of the commands required to successfully host. In conclusion, keep <ZH>'s but people shouldn't be <ZH>'s for so long. Just another one of my ideas that all too often went unheard or got shot down. <_<

Uh last I hear that's exactly what's going to happen (after I asked the person in the dean position for the 4th year in a row). I hope you didn't leave staff for that =)

Yes you don't need months to learn commands. I was originally hired as a mod, and I learned it all within a week. Perhaps now with a lot more going ons in staff people need a bit of time to adjust, but no reason to have ZHs last for so damn long, especially with robohelp around and especially as I've told everyone on staff (and many don't believe me) that ALL STAFF MEMBERS irrespective of rank should be doing help calls. Hopefully the comprimise reached a few days ago will really be done for good (I'm quite sure it will be) as ZH times will be drastically reduced, with a manditory test->promotion/fire to ER after a certain time period.

[Epinephrine]

Jason,

You've presented a very interesting idea. I was expecting a longer post, but I guess you just can't type as much as I can =)

Unfortunately I completely disagree with the way that you have things. So let's start from the beginning shall we?

1) TWL/TWD

You proposed making 4 different ops for TWL who would also run TWD. This is more or less completely unnecessary. First of all, TWD and TWL are fine seperate. TWD is more or less automated, requires very little in policy and grand decisions, and really just requires someone to reset it every so often and let in new squads. This is basically a job that can easily be handled by someone of a lower non-Smod position as is currently been done. There is no need to make a TWL-capable league operator spend too much time deal with all of this.

But then you say, we will have FOUR TWL-Ops so it won't be a problem!

2) Having 4 Ops

There is absolutely NO point in having 4 OPs, or even more than 2 OPs for TWL. Actually I believe it is completely counterproductive. I speak from my personal experience of running TWL and my personal experience of being a squad captain for over 3 of my TW years.

I cannot be more clear when I say trying to find even one person who is very competent, able to make correct decisions on the fly, add in necessary improvements, have exemplary management skills (to manage the TWL staff) and be completely up to date with all happenings of the league is hard enough. There are very, very few people in Trench Wars that I would think are capable of such a thing, thanks to the fact that TW really does have a small population in the grand scheme of things, and the fact that demographics also works completely against TW.

TWL has been lucky to have good operators in the last two seasons, and maybe even for season 5, but then we all saw what happened there. If you remember, Crome was doing an alright job, but then suddenly he left on vacation, and three people took over (Left_eye, Overstrand and Bleen). While they were competent mods, I think we can all agree that the end of that season was massively messed up with multiple problems, including not posting anything about the playoff structure until the week before, not implementing the roster lock as promised, and generally screwing up a lot of general decisions which we really against the spirit of the league (i.e. making a team forfeit a PLAYOFF game because they were 5 seconds late in submitting a lineup, forcing a team to almost forfeit a playoff game because they forgot to submit a schedule time (instead of just assigning the time the other squad wanted), and so on.

This was a direct result of the fact that the guy who was seen as the 'leader' had left and everyone else was unsure what to do. It was amplified by the fact that none of those people really ever had a deep understanding of the league and were instead recruited because they volunteered, and were competent mods. It was given a death blow by the fact that each person seemed at many times to have a different version of what 'the truth' was, a fact I found very annoying as a squad captain (who wasn't in staff) that season trying to obtain information about TWL.

I personally think it will be impossible to build a proper league in having 4 different operators. In fact I think 3 is too much. Two only worked in season 6 because PUSHER and I completely trusted eachother, and we met almost nightly to discuss TWL issues. It worked last season because PUSHER did most of the work. In fact one person works too if you can find someone good, as I virtually ran TWL for the rest of the season after PUSHER was too busy to play SS starting round 3 or so of Season 6.

With 4, you will either have very slow decision making (because one guy won't log in, or because it's just hard to get 4 or even 3 people together at the same time in SS), or wrong decision making because each Op will have a different version of 'the truth'. It is VERY hard to communicate exactly what you want even with just two people, with 4 I can't imagine how hard it would be logistically. This is the same situation with squads, where if you have too many leaders, each leader will want something else and things will mess up. Some squads are more democratic (i.e. pallies, spastic), but these only work for squads, I hardly doubt you'd want a 2 week vote with all TWL staff everytime a decision had to be made. Finally there's the old idea that when you can't get something from mom, you ask dad. Well in a squad, there's frankly not that many decisions to be made. In TWL there are TONS of decisions to be made, and thus I can easily see some Ops being seen as the more lenient and being taken advantage off. Note that more strict rules on Op autonomy would just lead to very slow decisions.

I think it would end up with staff just looking very unprofessional, as decisions would take much longer, and that it would be harder to find all the ops at the same time, and that different ops would see things differents, and that there really are a very limited of capable people who can run TWL this is a bad idea.

3) TWL as a seperate thing from staff

Great idea, it's exactly what I wanted when I took over TWL in season 6. Thing is, it's not going to happen. Dock does not trust people who he has no control over running bots and whatnot. Even if those people have absolutely no powers, and only have bot powers as permitted users and only for TWL bots, Dock refused to allow such a thing. It won't happen, stop beating a dead horse, and find other solutions.