Trenchwars over taken by cloakers

[Kyace]

a week would go by if the weasel was fixed.

the ship is not balanced. it is next to impossible for a warbird or spider to kill a weasel 1 vs. 1 under any circumstances (emphasis on "any." please dont twist what i am saying and try to apply it to something else.. then i will just have to go off topic and explain why you are wrong). that is not balanced, and it never was, even before the changes when the weasel was a fat slow piece of shit.

It is next to impossible for a levi to kill a warbird or a spider, and rather hard for sharks and terrs. The balance in pub arenas is in a set of checks and balances, there is no rambo ship that can kill every ship so a basing team needs to be deverse.

[Sarien]

Ok Mister Forum Law Talkin' Guys.. Time to take a stand here.

If you can't see what the wonder twins are doing:
They start a thread about being anti-weasel argue in it until they get backed into a corner they can't argue themselves out of, and so they simply start a new thread rather than reply anymore to the old ones.
Take a look at the anti weasel threads peppered around in various places.
Time for the Crackage in the Downward direction.

[Rosstones]

Tone was my SVS name.... u fucker.... DID U STEAL MY NAME WHEN I RETIRED???


.?find Tone <ER>


THATS PROOF U ... N _ G - N O G

[za gophar]

It is next to impossible for a levi to kill a warbird or a spider, and rather hard for sharks and terrs. The balance in pub arenas is in a set of checks and balances, there is no rambo ship that can kill every ship so a basing team needs to be deverse.

dude, i specifically told you not to do this. it is not next to impossible for a levi to kill a warbird or a spider. it has plenty of ways. it may be hard, but it is by no means impossible. you cant kill something you cant see, PERIOD.

[Dameon Angell]

Tone was my SVS name.... u fucker.... DID U STEAL MY NAME WHEN I RETIRED???


.?find Tone <ER>


THATS PROOF U ... N _ G - N O G

he doesn't have 'Tone', but plays on the name t0ne (number 0 instead of the letter o)

[Twerp]

Yay, Kyace is back ^_^.

[Send]

now we just need twerp to kill his parents and start playing the game again

[SpiderMage]

:Yawns.: Wake me up when people stop bitching about Weasels, because Tone and ZA just don't seem to get it.

TrenchWars is a lot like Rock, Paper, Scissors... every ship can beat and be beaten by at least one other ship, guarenteed, almost anytime.

Warbird can beat every other ship, one shot, but a Weasel can kill it no problem
Jav can beat every other ship, one bomb, but Spiders and Lancs can rip it to shreds
Spiders can beat every other ship with a flurry of bullets, but Warbirds and Weasels give it a hard time
Levi can kill everything IF it can get a bomb to hit a target/wall/etc, but every other ship save for maybe Shark(though Shark too probably), can make mince meat of it(And no, ZA, try being a Levi and take out a Spider or Warbird that's on your tail, not easy and nigh on not possible)
Terr can beat Weasel with realitive ease with bullets, and can kill everything else with one burst. Warbirds, Javs, Sharks(mines), Lancs and Levis can all destroy Terrs with little work
Weasels can kill Warbird, Spiders, Lancs and Levis no problem since they have no x radar, yet Terrs, Javs, Sharks and pretty much any amount of stray bullets or near bomb blasts can kill a Weasel.
Lancs can tear down Javs, Terrs and Sharks as well as play clean up on Warbirds, but Spiders and Weasels can beat them
Sharks can destroy EVERY SHIP with good mine placement and they are the ONLY ship that can repel mines, yet Warbirds, Spiders and Lancs can out last them and force them to use all their reps, then play with them before they make the kill

So... let's see.... where's the amount of unbalance?

Let's break it down into stats, hunter over hunted, I won't include for same ship. These also would be in their best area(midbase, flagroom, etc)

Warbird - 6:1(Jav, Spider, Levi, Terr, Lanc, Shark:Weasel)
Jav - 5:2(Warbird, Levi, Terr, Weasel, Shark:Spider, Lanc)
Spider - 5:2(Jav, Levi, Terr, Lanc, Shark:Warbird, Weasel)
Levi - 1:6(Shark[maybe, and this is one on one]:Warbird, Jav, Spider, Terr, Lanc)
Terr - 2:5(Burst or no burst and Spiders are easy to kill with Terrs and I say 2:5 because the bursts have to be launched and hope they bounce right)
Weasel - 4:3 In case you don't know math, this is a near perfect balance of stats... nearly 1 for 1, so far this is the only ship that has a 4:3 ratio...
Lanc - 4:3 Kinda funny how the ships that have under gone changes recently are balanced out huh? It could be 3:4 too, if you want to say Warbirds can destroy Lancs with ease, but in base like I said, Lancs can play clean up.
Shark - Iffy kind of ratio... as all ships can die by mines, but all ships can kill it with some sort of ease... so 6:1/1:6

So really... where is the game unbalanced?

[za gophar]

you just dont get it, do you... you dont. i did not read that, and i know it is wrong. you dont get it. no ship has an infinite advantage over another except for the cloaker. i dont care about it's relationships to other ships and your retarded moronic idiotic response that you spent way too much time on. think about how easily it can be changed..

let it sink in......

sinking....

sinking...

breathing, we are breathing. do some yoga or something to help it sink in

ok it should be sinking now..... good. you see? let me summarize:

-trenchwars has problems. some of them are so small that maybe they only bother a couple people and no one else cares. some of them are bigger.

-cloakers are a problem

-a lot of people are bothered by this problem.

-some people arent bothered by it. you are one of them! yay!!!

-this problem can be fixed very easily with some slight modifications of the ship that will also allow it to keep it's same role in the game.

-people will be happy

see? it was easy. i dont see how you could feel threatened by that. if you oppose this plan, then we will have to examine why you like the ship the way it is. perhaps you enjoy being free to lame people. understandable, but the game would be a better place without you and your laming machine.

[Ezor]

no gophar
YOU do not get it
it is a cycle

1) there is a change
2) people whine
3) the group that whines loudest gets their way
4) repeat

you are trying to make step number 3 go your way
you are failing
perhaps some size 7 text and bright colors would help your cause

[SpiderMage]

no ship has an infinite advantage over another except for the cloaker.

Wrong. It's called the Warbird, ever meet it?

Weasel has no advantage over Terr. Why? Well even with the Weasel's new settings, a Terr is STILL faster, STILL more agile, STILL has enough energy to fire 3-4 bullets(1 is enough to disable a fully charged Weasel), STILL has port and STILL has burst, PLUS it's teammates.

You say TrenchWars has problems, yes I agree it does. But it's not the ships, no no, it's the stupid people at the keyboard, the ones who bitch and moan about every death, the ones who bitch and moan about every Weasel death, the ones that spam "ez newb laggot camper spawner etc etc". Those people are the problem, the one's who don't have enough common sense let alone brain cells in their head to realize it's a game. Games have different sides of them, each and every game has this thing called a difficulty curve. You go from the easy difficulty of spawning Levis in Warbirds to the hard difficulty of you as a Warbird getting your ass kicked by a Weasel. And apparently you don't get it, at all, what. so. ever.

Have you ever played any FPS games? Probably not, but if you did, and they were online, do you know how many people in CounterStrike or Tribes BITCH about snipers just like the people in here BITCH about Weasels? "Oh wah, we can't see them, wah they are too powerful, wah WAH WAH"

Seriously, you are a hypocrite. "I can spawn if I want to but Weasels oh no they are bad, they can kill you without you even knowing they are there, but hold on let me shoot you the SECOND you appear in game!"

Get over yourself, there are Weasels, they are fine the way they are. The people who you supposedly killed as a Weasel who complained, guess what, they suck too and need to suck it up and play the game. I was playing not 5 minutes ago, and in the course of said game I was cloaked once... and y'know what... I didn't bitch. Amazing isn't it? I don't bitch when I get spawned, I don't bitch if 'm sniped, I don't bitch for any death except for saying "thanks..." when 'm TKed. Maybe you should try it sometime, the not bitching part. Like someone said in some other thread(maybe it was this one), until a Weasel can kill as many people as a Warbird can, it's not too powerful.

[Kolar]

Spidermage

1:you're just reciting "weasels are good", if you have good reason for this statement, please provide one, or how ever many you need.

2:You're looking at all ships abilities within their dueling capiblities only. Pub is far from dueling and there's a lot more to basing or pubbing then attempting to balance ship stats out, not considering that some are not used or currently effective for pubbing or basing.

[za gophar]

yeah spider i didnt read that, probably more of the same. and ezor, i dont see your point. even when i try to take a guess at what your point is, it is pretty irrelevant.

[Kyace]

-cloakers are a problem
-this problem can be fixed very easily with some slight modifications of the ship that will also allow it to keep it's same role in the game.

You have the floor, what are your slight modifications of the weasel that would make it more fair?

[SpiderMage]

Spidermage

1:you're just reciting "weasels are good", if you have good reason for this statement, please provide one, or how ever many you need.

2:You're looking at all ships abilities within their dueling capiblities only. Pub is far from dueling and there's a lot more to basing or pubbing then attempting to balance ship stats out, not considering that some are not used or currently effective for pubbing or basing.

First, gopher is doing the exact samething, all he's doing is "weasels are bad, weasel can cloak so weasel bad". Weasels are good for a few reasons...

A Weasel can be used as a distraction. Slip into the enemy flagroom/midbase, decloak and you practically scream "HEY LOOK AT ME!!" 9 out of 10 times, at least half the defending team will rush to the location of the Weasel, leaving what was previously guarded now unguarded(which makes it good for ?go base). This can be also be used very well in midbase, to draw the enemy Terr(s) into the line of fire, because again, 9 times out of 10 a Terr will rush after you.

A Weasel can be used for taking out camping/sniping defenders. Say they have midbase and flag room and they have two Warbirds on point firing down into the tube, and a Shark or two keeping your team from advancing and thus get pummeled by their shots. Have a team of two Weasels fly up, take out the Warbirds to remove the cover fire, rest of the team can get rid of the mines and come up the tubes.

A Weasel can help clean out roof. If you have the flagroom and you have say a pair of Warbirds or Javs wrecking havoc from the roof, send up a Weasel, it can clear off the roofers as easily if not more easily than any other ship, especially if they are Warbirds. And, more often then not, the two roofers will either a)one switch to terr, or b)get a terr to come to roof. Both detract from their main offense of pushing into the flagroom, because one switching to Terr only has the random bursts to rely on, and getting someone to roof Terr pulls another player from what's most important, trying to get into the flagroom.

Now yes, a Weasel can do all of this uncloaked, but not nearly as well as when cloaked, and being an assassin, Weasels have to wait sometimes for the oppurtune time to strike. That means, if a time limit or energy drain was put onto the Weasel, it could hinder its effectiveness by a margin ranging from slight to wide. If cloak drained energy, and you went to take care of roofers, there could be a situation where cloak auto turns off before you get a chance to shoot, or has drained too much energy to fire. Weasels, even with their faster speed and bullets, are still the "melee" ships, they need to get in close to be effective for the most part, so putting them in either of the previously stated situations could hinder them, thus making them less useful.

And I went with dueling because well, gopher says "he can spawn if he want to", so I based most everything in terms of the spawn area, which he was bitching about. But in terms of basing, with as choatic as the flagroom can get, bombs flyinf everywhere, shrap flying all around, bullets flying, reps going off and mines being dropped, it's hard for the Weasel to be effective in flagroom battles and as it should be, Weasels were never meant to help overtake or defend the flag. In terms of basing, the Weasel is more of a clean up, a hit and run, pick off the stragglers type ship. If a Warbird falls behind, a Weasel can take it out, one less Warbird to worry about. And that's what makes the Weasel balanced out as a ship, it's meant to distract and destroy, to take out stragglers, campers and ships providing cover fire. But at the sametime, it can't take a beating whatsoever, so it is in no way too powerful. I don't know if I wholly made sense, 'm tired, but yeah.

And gopher, all you say is the same shit too, "make it less lame" and your only arguement is "Spiders and Warbirds can't see it". Maybe you haven't gotten this through your head yet, they aren't meant to see it. It's as simple as that, Spiders and Warbirds were meant to have a ship to fear, just as Javs fear Spiders, Weasels fear Terriers and every ship fears Warbirds. That's how it goes. You keep saying it's lame that you can't see them, well it's lame that you can't deal with mines any other way than having someone switch to/play a Shark yet no one ever suggests giving the Spider a repel. And why do Spiders only get to have antiwarp? No one ever bitches about that. Yet people bitch that not all ships have x radar... truly strange world we live in, or rather, truly strange people inhabit the online gaming community.

To sum it up, simple and clear: Warbirds, Spiders and Lancs were just never meant to be able to see the Weasel. That's their limitation, with strength must also come weakness and being easy prey to Weasels is their weakness.