Trenchwars over taken by cloakers

[za gophar]

My point is that you still need to show reason for change. Like I said before, if you want change you need to show that change is needed. The changes you suggest are made to improve a non-basing context, and that is not enough to push for a change.

off the top of my head, weasels can be just as annoying in base as in spawn. countless times i have done something of heroic proportions in the flagroom and then bam you get cloaked.. it's like well.. that kind of spoils the glory there. or when you are in the flagroom alone in a spider and you just know you are about to get cloaked and there is nothing you can do about it. even if i am basing for my team i still hate getting cloak lamed. it affects basing too troll, dont get me wrong.. it's just that the presence of terrs makes it slightly less common and slightly less possible to be taken advantage of.

[Kim]

Imagine a ship that shoots twin wb bullets but has energy of 1. Think of the basing tactics!

[Sarien]

Every ship has its role in that [Basing] sense, even the levi, though many refuse to recognize that.

If they were mostly in the base then there's nothing lame about that. You would be using the ship effectively in a basing concept. If not, then your complaints, and the complaints of your victims, do not matter.

Any change in the ship settings should reflect the design of the zone. They should not be made to appease those who aren't playing in that style.

I agree in theory that the lev has a role in basing, even considering the current settings. The problem there is with the settings you have to presuppose that people want to base with it. That isn't the case as much as the people that play that combo want simply to nail lots of people at once and don't care that it comes at the cost of the irritation of lots of other people. Some even take pleasure in annoying as many as possible with their antics. That, I think helps to foster an attitude that is the reason lots of players look down on pubbing.

Whether or not he uses an X to kill lots of people in the base or out is not quite as important to a basing sense as doing it for a team, or on a private frequency, I think.

I agree that changes in ship settings should reflect the design of the zone, and the intent of the game, and not whether it appeases a person or a style of play. However, you have to consider that lots of players don't know that much about the design or the settings, so a way to read how successful the design of the zone is working is by taking temperature readings of what the populace thinks. Watching trends, and seeing what they like/don't like.

[Tone]

what's your point troll? i said it could be changed and still fill the same roll it already does as far as basing goes. it would make the aura of the zone go up. that's what we all want.

my 300 kills were spread pretty evenly all over the map.

pure hatred, that was the stupidest, most irrelevant and completely out of the blue post i have ever read. the strength of the weasel doesnt matter to me, tone said it did to him. it could have an energy of 1 for all i care, i would hate it the same. i have pubbed way more than your ass anyway you dont need to inform me of shit like that.

Troll and Pure hatred, as ZA points out, what you say about 1300 and 1020 energy doesnt matter, what matters is the results, and the RESULTS are people getting Xed left and right all of the time to the point where they game just sucks. sucks.

look at the results, not numbers, look at what Za and other X can do

[PH]

I've been getting X'ed since my first day in Trench Wars. I still get X'ed. I don't piss and whine about it like a fucking little kid. Shut the fuck up and play.

[Troll King]

off the top of my head, weasels can be just as annoying in base as in spawn. countless times i have done something of heroic proportions in the flagroom and then bam you get cloaked.. it's like well.. that kind of spoils the glory there. or when you are in the flagroom alone in a spider and you just know you are about to get cloaked and there is nothing you can do about it. even if i am basing for my team i still hate getting cloak lamed. it affects basing too troll, dont get me wrong.. it's just that the presence of terrs makes it slightly less common and slightly less possible to be taken advantage of.

If a cloaker kills you while basing, it's not any more lame or annoying, it's basing. If you get cloaked and it turns the tide while basing, that's not lame, that's how it's designed to be played. It does affect basing, I'm not arguing against that, in fact, I'm going to claim that as a point in my favour. That's what it was designed to do. From the recent changes to weasels I am seeing more weasels approaching the base. You claim that as a bad thing because it will get kills in base just as well as it does outside. My point is that I WANT to see them getting kills inside.

Your example of the spider living in fear in the flag room because of a cloaker coming for it? That's actually a good thing. Basing is boring when people, especially spiders, are just sitting in the flag room rapid firing bullets out. What I've seen from the current cloaker settings is that it is now more effective to keep fluid and moving instead of just sitting and lining or floating under the flag and firing lanc bullets. Terrs have to be more alert now. No longer can people claim that being a terr is boring if you have the flag because you can just park in the flag room and safely rack up a huge bounty and never have to do anything. A terr does that now and the flag is as good as lost. Tone wants to argue about looking at results instead of numbers? I'm not the one talking about the NUMBER of easy kills weasels get, I'm seeing RESULTS in a more active basing game.

Even when the basing action reaches a lull, you'll still see two or three cloakers trying to steal the flag and kills against the defending team. Again, you may count that as a problem, but I don't. It's a heck of a lot better than the alternative before the changes when NONE of the other ships go into the base. I count that as an improvement.

In short, everything you just said seems bad to you because you're still thinking as a non-baser. I'm looking at the same thing you are through the eyes of a pub baser and those negatives you listed are positives in my view.

[SpiderMage]

I think it's just their egos that get bruised when they die by Weasel. They complain that they were taken by surprise, no notice and completely unawares, so they bitch. It's just like when people get sniped, or spawned or strayed, they whine and bitch because all of a sudden they die. Man, must really injure the pride and ego. Because I bet you, more often than not, if you spawned 300 players, most of them would complain too.

And seriously Tone, "getting Xed left and right"? Do you even WATCH the game? I play Terr, Weasel, Warbird, Lanc and Spider, and I barely if EVER get Weasel killed, even if 'm a Weasel. I can play for 3 hours straight and not be touched by a Weasel while I am Spidering.

And Troll is right, it's completely and truly boring just to sit in flagroom or midbase with no opposition. I played one of the best games of pure pub today, something like 16 v 15 players... and the flagroom was going back and forth over and over, thanks to Spiders, Javs, Sharks, Terrs and... wow... Weasels too.

[Tone]

I think it's just their egos that get bruised when they die by Weasel. They complain that they were taken by surprise, no notice and completely unawares, so they bitch. It's just like when people get sniped, or spawned or strayed, they whine and bitch because all of a sudden they die. Man, must really injure the pride and ego. Because I bet you, more often than not, if you spawned 300 players, most of them would complain too.

Ego? no, theres nothing you can see therefore theres nothing that plays against so how can there be any ego involved?

really, its about playing trenchwars and your ship suddenly just exploding all of the time, and you dont see shit except a kill by messege. ego cant have anything to do with that...more like it makes the game suck and drains all the fun out of it, and its retarded, and weasels are way too much, especially now.

[Saturn V]

really, its about playing trenchwars and your ship suddenly just exploding all of the time, and you dont see shit except a kill by messege.

[Tone]

why dont you tell everyone how many times your dumb ass fell for the terrier's fire & port warp

[Sarien]

why dont you tell everyone how many times your dumb ass fell for the terrier's fire & port warp

Uhhhhhhhh....
Is anyone else seeing that Tony! Toni! Tone! just proved the point against himself?

He calls us his friends, but we only want his gifts,
And he'd never see us if he had no loot..

(Man I hope somebody else recognizes those lyrics)

[Mootland Farmer]

I play Public alot, more specifically Pure Pub. I usually just shark in Public (don't think anyone has seen me in anything else) and I don't get X'ed any more than the next ship. I get team killed alot more than getting X'ed, but that not the point. :] I do think the X is a bit powerful for what its supposed to do. I've seen X's uncloaked take on just about everything. I suppose they need to be toned (PUN!) :] down abit, but not removed from the pub/game like the Leviathan. Usually good team co-ordination can take care of most X's. When you've played Public for a long time, you don't care what kills you heh.

[ogron]

Pure Pub:

1. I think the levi should be allowed in pure pub, without the ability to attach.

2. Remove the roof. Levi's crawling up there, hiding on radar then shooting random bombs is annoying and talentless, and javs are distracting up there to basing, get them inside the base.

3. If you can protect a levi and bring it up into base and use it, then it's a tactical manoeuver and the other frequencies fault for hiding in the flagroom and not having scouts or people in midbase.

4. Bounty is important to alot of people. Allow every ship to buy X-Radar for 5000 points. Have it drain energy like the shark or javelin.

5. Give the cloaker back it's 1 rep, ban rockets, 1400 energy (1000 is too low you die accidentally too often), slow its manouverability and speed. Being a cloaker should be about surviving and carefully plotting against hapless victims, not quick lames or killing someone with 300bty in wb because you suck too much to kill them.

[PH]

1. I think the levi should be allowed in pure pub, without the ability to attach.

Disagree. They used to have "pure basing" weekends before the full-time appearance of the pure pubs, and they allowed Levs but no attaching. The improvement was minimal if even noticeable.

2. Remove the roof. Levi's crawling up there, hiding on radar then shooting random bombs is annoying and talentless, and javs are distracting up there to basing, get them inside the base.

Disagree. Roofing is lame, but getting in ship 4 and bombing the shit out of everything because you lack the intelligence to plot a legitimate base attack/defense is much worse. It's a lot easier to take out roofers without losing base than it is to get into a base with something that will bomb the hell out of you.

3. If you can protect a levi and bring it up into base and use it, then it's a tactical manoeuver and the other frequencies fault for hiding in the flagroom and not having scouts or people in midbase.

Disagree. When Levis come into the picture, the focus often switches from holding the base to half of a team surrounding a friendly Levi in an effort to get it to the flag and monopolize basing.

4. Bounty is important to alot of people. Allow every ship to buy X-Radar for 5000 points. Have it drain energy like the shark or javelin.

Don't even start with the "cloakers are lame" bullshit. The Weasel has to have some sort of advantage just like every other ship does, and just because you can't see it in four ships does not give you a right to completely cripple it.

5. Give the cloaker back it's 1 rep, ban rockets, 1400 energy (1000 is too low you die accidentally too often), slow its manouverability and speed. Being a cloaker should be about surviving and carefully plotting against hapless victims, not quick lames or killing someone with 300bty in wb because you suck too much to kill them.

The settings are fine. The speed and maneuverability are needed to compete with Terriers and make them work for kills, and if you can't conserve energy then you should stop using the ship.

Bottom line, if getting cloaked hurts your pride you shouldn't even play the game. Weasels are a hell of a lot more manageable than a shithead LT blasting you over and over again from outside base.

[za gophar]

tk i am just gonna have to disagree with you. under the settings i proposed the weasel still does have cloak and stealth, mind you.. and it is also able to get through 1 tile holes with more ease. it also has 1500 to 2000 energy. i simply took away its ability to lame people with ease who cant see it.

and spidermage.. wow that post surpassed the stupidity of that one by pure. i believe you said "if you spawned 300 people they would complain just as much." so you are comparing cloaking to spawning. i think it is a pretty good comparison.. killing people who dont have a chance to fight back. people have already thought of rememdies for spawning.. ?go spaceship has something called anti-spawn technology or something, i think.