Racism

[EnFlAmE]

Looking at the title of this thread one may think its another attention seeking whore trying to get banned by saying racist crap but for those who like that I am afraid I’ll have to disappoint you. Before I start out I would like to make some things clear; I do not support racism nor do I think its funny, cool.. Ect ect. Also this thread isn’t ment to offend people nor to flame anyone. Now that is clear I’ll get down to business.

In my relatively short time of playing TW I noticed something that I’ve never seen in other games and that is that in this zone racism is not just censored but also enough to get you banned. Its not that I totally disagree with the anti-racism policy of this zone but I am wondering if this is the most effective way of dealing with the problem. As soon as you start to join chats you will hear the famous racist word (everybody that plays this game longer then 1 day knows where I am talking about) cause on chats it isn’t bannable and soon you start to find out that some people think racism is “cool” and most likely they will use the word as much as others say “EZ”. So why is it that even tough the policy is so strict that the word even exist and in some chats its just as common as saying hi to somebody? In most other games racism is less hard punished then in TW but it is allso more rare then in TW. This fact kinda reminds me of the drug policy in certain countries, in France for instance soft drugs are illegal but the % of the population using them is higher then in the Netherlands where it is legal. Or take the kindergarten for instance, saying fuck to your teacher when your 4 years old makes you get respect from co-pupils so you will say it more often then when nobody really cares if you say it yes or no.

Basically I’m wondering if legalizing racism would cut down the racist words and jokes. Cause what is cool about saying something when the rest of the population can say it too without nothing really happening? It would take away the “rough rebel part” of using racism to stand up against the zone staff and it would stop being cool . A problem might be that for some people its so normal to use racism that instead of the “EZ” or “Sit” spam in elim you would get a “sit ******” spam in elim. Therefore it could be a bad idea to "legalise" racism.

This is purely ment as somthing to discuss other then "who are the top 10 spawners"

[Lucon]

Edit: I didn't read the last paragraph. Now I see how shitassed the argument is.

[Troll King]

There's a small flaw in the logic. People seem to think that TW's racism laws are too strict and that people who don't want to hear racism should just either ignore it or use ?nopubchat. At the same time, as the opening post acknowledges, racism is allowable on private chats. This leads them to suggest "if it's allowed in private, why can't it be allowed in public?" What they forget is that by allowing it in private chats, it functions the same way as the suggestion to use ?nopubchat. The only difference is that it changes what we consider the "default" setting. Instead of having those who don't want to see racism change how they interact with the game, this allows those who DO want to be able to see it to make that change.

I don't like the excuse that "people will only want to do it because it's illegal". That's not a valid justification for allowing it. Just look at the example of the kindergarten student mouthing off to the teacher. A kid might just say "fuck" because he knows it's taboo. Does that mean that the best course is to let him continue to say it to his teacher? That's not a realistic solution in that scenario, and it isn't a realistic solution here either.

Another often used argument is that by allowing racism we dilute it's effects. That argument is full of holes too and it shows a lack of understanding about the overall issue. It doesn't dilute the effects at all. What it might actually do is allow it to spread. For example, even apologists for racism will often say that racism is a product of your parent's influence; as in, if your parents are racist, they pass it onto their kids. Parents say things, kids hear them, they think it's okay, they start saying it too. That will be the same situation if racism were legalized in TW.

[Subjugation]

If you want people to stop saying ez, ban it. If you want people to say all kinds of racist shit, unfilter it. Unhappy a-holes will just do whatever to piss people off, and that includes calling you a porch monkey, even if you're Fin.

Some people just like to push your buttons and boundaries.

[Liquid Blue]

People who don't have public chat filtered when they come into the game shouldn't have to deal with seeing people use racist comments, it's rude to use such words and phrases in public, so the same works for public chat. No one forces you to go to a private chat, it's of your own accord and you should be ready for whatever is going on in there- if immature kids want to use those words in private, so be it. But when you're communicating with others in public, in a public chat you should know better to not use those words. They were created with the simple intent to belittle and harm others, and although you might not find them offensive, others will.

It's not hard to save racist comments for private chat, for private pm's, so it's just the mature thing to do, to restrain yourself.

"If you can't think of anything nice to say, don't say anything at all"

[Torn Wing]

I dont have any problem being a honky.

[Epinephrine]

Considering I played my first few years of Subspace outside of TW, I was very against the racism policy when it first began. Actually I also really hated the idea that the zone automatically filtered swear words unless you specifically turned it off (which meant even if you were having a private PM conversation with someone, they could miss any sentence you typed with swear words in it). I tried actively to get the zone back to an 'anything goes' type of place, but DoCk> and PriitK would have none of it.

While I still hate the swear words thing, I've now gotten used to the no racism thing. Sure in other zones it's not like you hear it non-stop, but at least in TW you don't have to hear it at all if you don't want to. People who like to say racist things to prove a point will say it filter or not (they are just more imaginative about it in TW). The thing is, the racism rule in TW cuts down on all the people who are casually racist such as people who think it's a good idea to use the 'N' word instead of saying 'ez', but perhaps not necessarily actually racist enough to want to risk getting banned for it. I think this creates a more positive environment in TW and is one of the reasons for TW's success. Believe it or not, there are plenty of people out there who don't want to see racist words in every other sentence.

While I now agree with the racism rule (I guess I'm more mature now), I think the rule should actually be extended a bit further. I think it's wrong that words that are considered racist are banned while words such as 'fag' are allowed. I see it as a double standard, that while it's wrong to discriminate for one purpose, it's perfectly okay to discriminate against another (homosexuals). Now I'm not going to go all PC and say 'ban anything that's remotely bad', but when deurogatory words are used for any large historically discriminated and hated group such as other races and gays I think if TW is to be consistant it should stop all of these to the best of its ability. Just as much people have been persecuted, killed, lynched and ostracised in society for being gay as for being other races and I think there's a powerful argument that if TW believes in a certain type of social justice where censorship is the official policy it should also include this group of people.

My two cents, and no I'm not gay but then I'm not black either.

[Kolar]

We don't "allow" racism. Staff has no control over private messages and chats in TW so we can not police it.

[death row]

We don't "allow" racism. Staff has no control over private messages and chats in TW so we can not police it.

Not going to name names, but staff members are on my chats and racist words are said and everything is cool. Nobody is warned, nothing of that nature. From my understanding, even if staff are on chats, you can be racist all you want. So heres the dilema: People will always find loop-holes around this "no racism" policy.

What I'm curious is, why is it okay in zones like chaos, where you're having a pro-championship game (full arena), and everyone is allowed to be racist in spec, in blue, you name it. But in trench wars, its not allowed? Why is it "okay" there and not here? Seems like a double-standard. Last I checked, chaos zone and trench wars zone are still subspace (continuum).

[Spikester]

Actually you can get banned for racism in chats

[Uridium]

dont make racism an issue, simple as that. Dont think anything racist and you wond say it or type it.

Dont make it an issue if someone says/types something racist, just ignore it. Most of the people who play TW are little kids, they'll get bored of it, just like any other trend.

[Doc Flabby]

A word in in itself is not necesserly offensive it is usually the context in which its used. Thats is why i think the racism policy is right in TW.

Saying that someone is gay or of a different color of skin and then implying that because of that they are therefore inferior is wrong.

Saying that because someone is EZ and therefore inferior is right!

Personally if im gonna hate someone im gonna do it because the're a dick not because they are black or whatever and you cant even tell on this game its not like it has a webcam program inbuilt last time i checked...

If you have to resort to racist/gay insults you're obiviosly too stupid to think up ya own ones

[Liquid Blue]

What I'm curious is, why is it okay in zones like chaos, where you're having a pro-championship game (full arena), and everyone is allowed to be racist in spec, in blue, you name it. But in trench wars, its not allowed? Why is it "okay" there and not here? Seems like a double-standard. Last I checked, chaos zone and trench wars zone are still subspace (continuum).

It's only a double standard if Chaos was run by the same people who run TW (which I hope isn't the case for sanity's sake). Different zone owners are going to have different policies and diffferent viewpoints on things like racism. I guess that's good though, if you feel like syaing racist words. Just head on over to Chaos if the desire to use racist words in a public setting burns within you.

[Superted]

I was once on Predator Rulez's chat (with Enflame) and the racism on there was intolerable, primarily BrItiSh, I tried reporting but no1 cared.

I wouldn't have normally reported it but a week earlier I had heard that racism on chat had become an offense, as long as there was a member of staff present or something. But if a member of staff is on the chat they're liek to be freinds with the offender and so won't ban them.

[Zerzera]

racism in chats and pm's can be done from other zones, therefor it would be impossible to stop it from happening. Mostly because other zones have different standards on racism.