i was forced to remove my banner

[Material Girl]

Stark I can understand what you're saying and yes, there are many other cases of genocide that we have no way of symbolizing.... but the swastika, like it or not, is a modern symbol of intolerance and hate and it should not be admitted into a game where we have 11 and 12 year olds who may not be sure if it's good or bad after seeing it used as a banner. One step at a time...

And for all of you who are offended by this 'censorship', I'm sure there are many other sites/games where you can celebrate your swastika.

[stark]

Originally posted by Material Girl
And for all of you who are offended by this 'censorship', I'm sure there are many other sites/games where you can celebrate your swastika.

right so should ss be any different (and no, it's not "celebration" and 11 or 12 year old? show me a 11 or 12 year old that examines everone's banner deciding good from bad. if i didn't know what a swastika was and someone had it as their banner, i wouldn't care.. i probably wouldn't even notice it. on step at a time it should be going back to being a good symbol

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Originally posted by ConcreteSchlyrd
The fact of the matter is that it's a bannable offense now. Learn to deal with it.

[stark]

i'm sure they said the same things to the slaves.

[SiddharthaKurtz]

Hrm... just some random not-paying-attention ramblings...

Do you know one of the major things that makes totalitarianism and the nazi's rule so terrifying? Their lack of tolerance for dissent. The idea our governments are founded on are basically not to censor the hell out of everything predicated on the belief that the individual citizen should be allowed to make his/her own choices and that eventually it will become clear to the majority that freedom and tolerance is the road to travel and not censorship. Now in terms of our government it is rife with contradiction regarding this, but I am simply using the ideals that the government was founded on and not the working structure as an example. Most of you here surely are just post-modernist fools brainwashed by television and every honey potion that's been whispered in your ears. But I am not a post-modernist, and I don't entirely believe that people will make the right decision. This last little stretch of history has been the era of man without need of god, we can find all the meaning in the universe within ourselves. But this didn't work out quite as well as we'd hoped. Now it is true that some people are not satisfied spiritually by a particular dinomination of faith with strict boundaries, and I am one of them. But for the majority of people these guidelines are very important. People have been taught to hate church and religion, and it is humorous because years ago, as we all know too well today, the church snarked at scientific progress, but today it has quite reversed itself. Now to be caught reading about religion is to be sneered at. It is in this way that by limiting the choices of banners so as to censor these racist groups you are actually inching closer to their territory. You are telling people that you should think for them, and that they are unable to find what is right. Clearly adolf hitler was of the same opinion, no? Now this is of course a tricky business as I myself believe that some censorship is required because people are not always going to draw the correct conclusions (that's right post-modernists, there are RIGHT conclusions). But until I see these groups using the swastika banners recruiting for some kind of cult or something, I think it is foolish to limit the selection of banners. Personally I believe that anyone displaying hitler's swastika as a banner is a fool or has severely lost their way on the road of life. And worse yet are people like Machine of God who plead ignorance and use these symbols without any knowledge of their meaning, which is irresponsible and proves that indeed you are not capable of making the right choices yourself. But if there are those who genuinely believe that the nazis were correct, I respect that belief despite my opinion that it is flawed and I will fight against it. But maybe trench wars is a personal group and if they find it personally offensive then certainly it makes sense to ban those banners. But if you're trying to promote personal growth and freedom of speech then you should not be threatening to ban people for using a swastika banner. You are probably supposed to be remaining arbitrary as moderators, but for individuals we are taught today that we are in no place to judge others, but that is untrue. To be passive and not to act for the better when we have the oppertunity I believe can be even more wicked than committing the horrid act itself. Well I've rambled on enough in my own half-asleep and ADD-sufferer-like style, so now I will leave you with a quote by albert Camus who is far more capable at writing than I will ever be.

[stark]

that makes sence.. unlike some things i say. i wear my banner as a statement, not to my belief that what the Nazi's did was right. killing people = bad. i believe annux is a meanie. the deaths waere a mistake, we all make mistakes at some point in life.. like drinking and driving and then crashing and killing someone.

[Fit of Rage]

so just how did a ban threat turn into a racism debate? MOG are you black or jewish by any chance?

[stark]

did you even read the thread?

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

I'm not saying that dissent is wrong, not by any means. What I am saying is that you can (and by all means SHOULD) have better things to worry about than not being able to wear a swastika banner in an online computer game. There are a lot of other things that are better deserving of your time and energy than to drone on and on about historical meanings of a symbol that has been linked to one of the largest genocides in the history of the world. If you're so incredibly worried about it, by all means, start your own zone and have whatever settings you want. As it is, though, you're playing in a zone that has had MANY complaints about people wearing swastika banners. So, to quell some of the complaints, it was made illegal. Case closed. You can respond on this thread until your fingers fall off, but you're not going to change anything.

Now I know this will just prompt a "but I'm making a difference! It's like the 70's all over again!"-type response. Well, it's time to remove your head from your ass. We're not talking about you trying to get a "no hats" rule repealed by your school, we're talking about you trying to fight to be able to wear a symbol that's immediately (like it or not) associated with hate and discrimination. DEAL.

[stark]

Well, i'm done arguing... for two reasons:
one: annux is a meanie and just yells at me.
two: you can't beat Conc in a debate or argument.

my banner remains... staff- ban me if your heart desires.

[Material Girl]

Re: Hrm... just some random not-paying-attention ramblings...

Originally posted by SiddharthaKurtz
Do you know one of the major things that makes totalitarianism and the nazi's rule so terrifying? Their lack of tolerance for dissent. The idea our governments are founded on are basically not to censor the hell out of everything predicated on the belief that the individual citizen should be allowed to make his/her own choices and that eventually it will become clear to the majority that freedom and tolerance is the road to travel and not censorship. Now in terms of our government it is rife with contradiction regarding this, but I am simply using the ideals that the government was founded on and not the working structure as an example. Most of you here surely are just post-modernist fools brainwashed by television and every honey potion that's been whispered in your ears. But I am not a post-modernist, and I don't entirely believe that people will make the right decision. This last little stretch of history has been the era of man without need of god, we can find all the meaning in the universe within ourselves. But this didn't work out quite as well as we'd hoped. Now it is true that some people are not satisfied spiritually by a particular dinomination of faith with strict boundaries, and I am one of them. But for the majority of people these guidelines are very important. People have been taught to hate church and religion, and it is humorous because years ago, as we all know too well today, the church snarked at scientific progress, but today it has quite reversed itself. Now to be caught reading about religion is to be sneered at. It is in this way that by limiting the choices of banners so as to censor these racist groups you are actually inching closer to their territory. You are telling people that you should think for them, and that they are unable to find what is right. Clearly adolf hitler was of the same opinion, no? Now this is of course a tricky business as I myself believe that some censorship is required because people are not always going to draw the correct conclusions (that's right post-modernists, there are RIGHT conclusions). But until I see these groups using the swastika banners recruiting for some kind of cult or something, I think it is foolish to limit the selection of banners. Personally I believe that anyone displaying hitler's swastika as a banner is a fool or has severely lost their way on the road of life. And worse yet are people like Machine of God who plead ignorance and use these symbols without any knowledge of their meaning, which is irresponsible and proves that indeed you are not capable of making the right choices yourself. But if there are those who genuinely believe that the nazis were correct, I respect that belief despite my opinion that it is flawed and I will fight against it. But maybe trench wars is a personal group and if they find it personally offensive then certainly it makes sense to ban those banners. But if you're trying to promote personal growth and freedom of speech then you should not be threatening to ban people for using a swastika banner. You are probably supposed to be remaining arbitrary as moderators, but for individuals we are taught today that we are in no place to judge others, but that is untrue. To be passive and not to act for the better when we have the oppertunity I believe can be even more wicked than committing the horrid act itself. Well I've rambled on enough in my own half-asleep and ADD-sufferer-like style, so now I will leave you with a quote by albert Camus who is far more capable at writing than I will ever be.

I believe Siddhartha is making a valid point in that censorship is not ideal. But in the case of TW banners, it is prudent and practical to outlaw such a blatently hateful symbol. I don't imagine our governments would put up a nazi flag on the Parliament building in ode to democracy.

[yung]

I really don't care what any of you have to say, or about this whole swas debate, i just want to take this oppurtunity to flame Goddess.

We replaced Left_Eye with Goddess. Left_Eye with Goddess?

The only thing Goddess does is host Hunt and reset subarenas like Zone66. Left graced us with competent hosting, and a variety of different events.

The only reason Goddess is still on staff is because she has the support of other tools, like Randedl. When she reset Zone66 to "host" elim, she was cited by a smod (that will remain unnamed), and immediatly had all of her Cronies, including Randedl, flame that smod on the grounds that "he didn't tell them they couldn't reset subzones." Yea, last time i checked, warzone was being reset everyday?

Staff needs to maintain a level of "maturity" and "ethics". People like Goddess represent neither.

I think it was a big mistake to trade Left_eye for Goddess. I'm tired of idiotic staffers that think it's their god given right to power trip and act like kiddiots. I'm an asshole half the time, i admit, but im not representing the TW staff. If you choose to take the job, and represent the Staff, you need to change your attitude. When Poid was on staff he would wear "left=man" as his squad, are you kidding me? She/he was a fellow staffer, you don't do that.

Furthermore, what's up with all this staff on staff violence? All these ER's and Mods who think they are hot shit, taking it upon themselves to fight with each other , and fight with the people they are supposed to "admin."

I'm getting off topic, alot of staffers abuse, alot of the current staffers need to be replaced, but i think Goddess is a priority, she just should'nt represent the community.

[Material Girl]

tru dat

Left_Eye for president!

[skate]

i use big words because they make me sound smart

[Material Girl]