Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Burden of Proof

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Burden of Proof

    This isn't a fucking democracy, no one has a 'right' to play this game, it is a privilege. And as a privilege, we are all obligated to whatever rules, and rights, exists. If none of us like it, we can leave. It is no different than a drivers license. No one has the 'right' to drive. If you choose to ignore the rule of the road, you lose the privilege to drive. If my car suddenly increases horsepower to that of a NASCAR race car, I still understand I will lose my privilege to drive if I go 200mph down the road.

    When we log on, each of us are agreeing to whatever the TW rules are, period. The staff makes the rules, each of us decides whether or not we want to deal with it.

    Why is the burden of proof upon the staff? This is stupid. Again, none of us has any 'rights' here. It's a privilege. So why is PL even 'checking' people's PC's? Why is the staff obligated to prove anyone is cheating? First, I think every player should understand that we need to do everything in our powers to make sure it doesn’t appear that we are cheating. Second, if a staff warns someone, they should immediately understand that their privilege of playing this game is in jeopardy. They should listen to staffer, take whatever actions are being asked of them, no fucking ‘push back’ or lip service. Third, if someone gets banned then the burden of proof should be on the player to prove he wasn’t cheating.

    Taking this approach has two possible downsides. First, it is possible that some whiners, especially those that have always chosen to push the limits, will get pissed, declare it 'unfair' and leave. Second, it is possible that a very corrupt staff could go crazy and ruin the game. But It is my opinion that it is far better to lose a few people now than to watch this game die a slow death through attrition due to being unable to control cheating. Second, the chances that staff would go crazy and be grossly unfair is very, very slim.

    Come on PL, step up and stop trying to prove anyone was cheating. Take the leadership role, start getting tough and place the burden of proof where it belongs, on the player.

  • #2
    no one has a 'right' to play this game
    PriitK has but i agree with you
    Kyace <ER>> I could use a good laugh, go ahead cheat and pretend to be dumb.

    1:lemar> still gonna flame bc 247

    Galleleo> where is all this lag coming from?
    dL.Chao> Gall
    Fairlights> ur anus?
    dL.Chao> Stop whining
    dL.Chao> You lost because you suck

    (RoboHelp)>This message has been sent by BrItIsH:
    (RoboHelp)>I don't want to know your name, I just want.. Bang bang bang!
    (RoboHelp)>If you have any other questions regarding this issue, please use :BrItIsH:<Message>.

    Comment


    • #3
      To completely disregard the point of this thread, I would say that people like Push, PL, Dock, Weaver, lnx, among others who have put inordinate amounts of time into a free spaceship game also have a right to play.

      Comment


      • #4
        I'm not exactly sure, but I think there was a reason for Pure_Luck wanting to actually check if he was cheating or not instead of him him flat out banned. If he was being prized shields, claimed he wasn't doing anything, and took advantage without any other circumstances, he would be flat out banned... it's because of other reasons that Luck even looked into this. Quite frankly, and I know PL knows this, if we're going to have base all the cheating bans off of pure and solid proof (which we haven't always done in the past), it's going to take FOREVER to get rid of cheaters. I doubt there will be many, if any, cases in the future, and hopefully for TWL, where staff members will have to go to this extreme of a measure to prove if someone is guilty or not.... and I only say that because of the odd circumstances.

        Comment


        • #5
          I agree with Ephemeral on this one, I just think this should be a united effort between zones, not just for tw, in order for it to work.

          Also, I'm wondering why the dean of staff, who has many other things to do too, has to take of the cheating too. Taking too many tasks will only get you a burnout and an ulcer. Isn't getting cheaters the job of moderators? Now you're just effectively making a complete level of staff idle, except when it comes to banning teamkilling pubbers and the likes.
          6:megaman89> im 3 league veteran back off

          Originally posted by Dreamwin
          3 league vet

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Ephemeral
            This isn't a fucking democracy, no one has a 'right' to play this game, it is a privilege. And as a privilege, we are all obligated to whatever rules, and rights, exists. If none of us like it, we can leave. It is no different than a drivers license. No one has the 'right' to drive. If you choose to ignore the rule of the road, you lose the privilege to drive. If my car suddenly increases horsepower to that of a NASCAR race car, I still understand I will lose my privilege to drive if I go 200mph down the road.

            When we log on, each of us are agreeing to whatever the TW rules are, period. The staff makes the rules, each of us decides whether or not we want to deal with it.

            Why is the burden of proof upon the staff? This is stupid. Again, none of us has any 'rights' here. It's a privilege. So why is PL even 'checking' people's PC's? Why is the staff obligated to prove anyone is cheating? First, I think every player should understand that we need to do everything in our powers to make sure it doesn’t appear that we are cheating. Second, if a staff warns someone, they should immediately understand that their privilege of playing this game is in jeopardy. They should listen to staffer, take whatever actions are being asked of them, no fucking ‘push back’ or lip service. Third, if someone gets banned then the burden of proof should be on the player to prove he wasn’t cheating.

            Taking this approach has two possible downsides. First, it is possible that some whiners, especially those that have always chosen to push the limits, will get pissed, declare it 'unfair' and leave. Second, it is possible that a very corrupt staff could go crazy and ruin the game. But It is my opinion that it is far better to lose a few people now than to watch this game die a slow death through attrition due to being unable to control cheating. Second, the chances that staff would go crazy and be grossly unfair is very, very slim.

            Come on PL, step up and stop trying to prove anyone was cheating. Take the leadership role, start getting tough and place the burden of proof where it belongs, on the player.
            i agree.
            HEATHA> i smell like ass

            Comment


            • #7
              The problem in leth's case is the bot was prizing everyone....The proof is there that he wasnt cheating....
              Rediscover online gaming. Get Subspace

              Mantra-Slider> you like it rough
              Kitty> true

              I girl with BooBiez> OH I GET IT U PRETEND TO BE A MAN


              Flabby.tv - The Offical Flabby Website

              Comment


              • #8
                I agree.

                I think there should be no scenario where a staffer could frame someone like this and get away with it, that's the only reason why this wasn't a normal cheater case because the possiability exists, as well as some information points to a staffer and other things. I don't know why he isn't banned or at what point the investigation is at but if it comes up clear, no logs.. nothing... he should still be out for a little bit.


                PL is the only person with sysop access who is active so that's why he followed up on this and probably because Rudy wasn't there. Still other mods were involved so he isn't making all Moderators useless.
                Last edited by Kolar; 02-02-2006, 05:43 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Doc Flabby
                  The problem in leth's case is the bot was prizing everyone....The proof is there that he wasnt cheating....
                  No, the problem was that something malfunctioned and he took advantage of it. Also, if everyone was being prized shields why was he the only one with one death? I wasn't there and I don't know all the details, but based off the information given on here, he took advantage of the system. His obligation was to spec, he eventually decided to do so.

                  I couldn't agree with you more, Eph.

                  P.S. This is something bigger than Lethargy, so let's keep that in another thread.
                  1:Best> lol why is everyone mad that roiwerk got a big dick stickin out his underwear, it's really attractive :P
                  3:Best> lol someone is going to sig that
                  3:Best> see it coming
                  3:Best> sad

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    We discussed this IRL in the hallways between class today. Do I have a life?
                    NOSTALGIA IN THE WORST FASHION

                    internet de la jerome

                    because the internet | hazardous

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Which smod prized? I know multiple smods who are eager to prize people if they know them.
                      You ate some priest porridge

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Reaver
                        Also, if everyone was being prized shields why was he the only one with one death?
                        good point
                        Rediscover online gaming. Get Subspace

                        Mantra-Slider> you like it rough
                        Kitty> true

                        I girl with BooBiez> OH I GET IT U PRETEND TO BE A MAN


                        Flabby.tv - The Offical Flabby Website

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by genocidal
                          To completely disregard the point of this thread, I would say that people like Push, PL, Dock, Weaver, lnx, among others who have put inordinate amounts of time into a free spaceship game also have a right to play.
                          Respectfully disagree.
                          Volunteer is defined as "To do charitable or helpful work without pay or payback".

                          If what you said was true, then donating blood would mean that you had the 'right' to receive blood. Red Cross gives everyone blood whether or not you have ever donated, no priority is given to those who donate vs. those who do not.

                          Another example would be someone volunteering at a food bank or soup kitchen. Just because they have volunteered there, it doesn't give them any more 'rights' to receive food ahead of others.

                          Same with volunteers in hospitals, firefighters, etc.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            As far as Leth's case.....

                            Say I pull into a gas station and unknowing put some experimental gas into my car that makes 800 horsepower. As I pull out of the station and hit the gas petal, my car takes off like a rocket. If a cop pulls me right there, 100 feet from the gas station, I think it is legitimate to forgive my excessive speed.
                            But if I am 15 miles from the gas station and try to say it wasn't my fault, I deserve the ticket.

                            The burden of proof in this specific example is upon me to explain why I was driving at extreme speeds 15 miles from the station. There is no value for me to try to tie it back to someone either mistakenly or intentionally putting the wrong gas into the gas pump. The only purpose of doing that is because I want to divert attention away from what I did wrong.

                            The wrong gas at the pump is certainly worthy of investigation and possible corrective action, but is a completely separate issue.
                            Last edited by Ephemeral; 02-03-2006, 08:33 AM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Eph you brought this up very nicely, and I agree with you.

                              (Y)
                              3:Wax> ard and i snapchat all the time
                              3:Wax> we play virtually tummysticks
                              3:i.d.> da fk is that?
                              3:Ardour> we basically are each others personal psychologist
                              3:Shadowmere> i.d., Wax breaks keyboards playing SubSpace. Best not ask him what anything is.
                              3:Wax> Tummy sticks is the situation, commonly referred to as a game, in which two erect men cuddle closely and face-to-face causing their two erect penises, or sticks, to push upwards between their stomachs, or tummys.
                              3:Wax> Sticks combine with tummys, hence the name "tummy sticks."
                              3:Shadowmere> LOL
                              3:i.d.> Oddly, that's close to what I thought it was...

                              Best> I never cooked a day in my life

                              Deft> beat by a guy who plays ss on his cellphone
                              Shadowmere> Rofl
                              Up in ya !> With his feet
                              Deft> no kidding, redefining l44t
                              Up in ya !> l44t feet
                              Deft> l44t f44t*
                              Up in ya !> Twinkle toes
                              Deft> he had l33t f33t but he practiced

                              Comment

                              Working...
                              X