Burden of Proof

[Kolar]

The burden of proof in this specific example is upon me to explain why I was driving at extreme speeds 15 miles from the station. There is no value for me to try to tie it back to someone either mistakenly or intentionally putting the wrong gas into the gas pump. The only purpose of doing that is because I want to divert attention away from what I did wrong.

I would agree with you only if it was known for sure that neither a bot or person prized this player, it is an unique case where that has to be checked because the 'ticket' here is 1 year network wide ban and some of the 'proof' points towards staff abuse. If that can not be known for sure then on a completely different issue I agree this person should be banned for a lesser 'crime', not reporting it or speccing and continuing to play with this advantage.

[Reaver]

Point is, this isn't a democracy, just like Eph said. With that in mind, there are no guaranteed rights. He should be guilty until proven innocent. He's the one being accused of cheating, and rightfully so. It's his task to prove himself innocent. It's not staff's task to prove him guilty, atleast it shouldn't be. If he was in the game for the five+ minutes like people said he was, he exploited.

[Black Mage]

Point is, this isn't a democracy, just like Eph said. With that in mind, there are no guaranteed rights. He should be guilty until proven innocent. He's the one being accused of cheating, and rightfully so. It's his task to prove himself innocent. It's not staff's task to prove him guilty, atleast it shouldn't be. If he was in the game for the five+ minutes like people said he was, he exploited.

Well he was immediately banned, and then the ban was lifted upon examination of the details. Apparently he did prove himself innocent.

[kthx]

If Pure_Luck can look into someones computer and see if they have programs or not, why can't we code a bot that checks someones computer for a list of banned programs, including programs for downloading that induce lag, and any sort of CE program. I mean if were all connected to the server, shouldn't be hard to get IP's etc. I mean, matchbots could do a check in the 30 seconds you sit in the safe waiting to be warped out, and that would basically solve any problems with that. If it finds any CE programs on your computer, or finds any lag inducing programs open, perhaps the bot could *kill someone for 10 minutes and basically force the team to sub them, or not recruit people like that in the first place.

[D1st0rt]

Continuum 39pr3 had a thing that checked running processes but they didn't get it quite working so they went back to pr1

[Hero*]

This isn't a fucking democracy, no one has a 'right' to play this game, it is a privilege. And as a privilege, we are all obligated to whatever rules, and rights, exists. If none of us like it, we can leave.
When we log on, each of us are agreeing to whatever the TW rules are, period. The staff makes the rules, each of us decides whether or not we want to deal with it.

Why is the burden of proof upon the staff? This is stupid. Again, none of us has any 'rights' here. It's a privilege. So why is PL even 'checking' people's PC's? Why is the staff obligated to prove anyone is cheating? First, I think every player should understand that we need to do everything in our powers to make sure it doesn’t appear that we are cheating. Second, if a staff warns someone, they should immediately understand that their privilege of playing this game is in jeopardy. They should listen to staffer, take whatever actions are being asked of them, no fucking ‘push back’ or lip service. Third, if someone gets banned then the burden of proof should be on the player to prove he wasn’t cheating.

Come on PL, step up and stop trying to prove anyone was cheating. Take the leadership role, start getting tough and place the burden of proof where it belongs, on the player.

What do you mean we dont have a right to play? bahahaha. I know many people who have bought this game in stores, that used their own money to get this game, and you're saying the don't have the right to play? They have the most right to play. For me though, I downloaded it. I have a right to play too, its not a damn privilege to play this game. Its free, its for the general public to play. And for you saying that PL should just ban him without evidence that he cheated? Are you fucking stupid? He needs evidence in order to ban him, and if there is no sufficient evidence then he can't. It's like if you say "Hero said N**" that is enough evidence for you to ban me? No. Staff has to see it, or TWBot. Innocent untill proven guilty, boiii.

Edit: not to mention the people who have supported TW by sending in money have a right to play this game.

[Salubrious]

If Pure_Luck can look into someones computer and see if they have programs or not, why can't we code a bot that checks someones computer for a list of banned programs, including programs for downloading that induce lag, and any sort of CE program. I mean if were all connected to the server, shouldn't be hard to get IP's etc. I mean, matchbots could do a check in the 30 seconds you sit in the safe waiting to be warped out, and that would basically solve any problems with that. If it finds any CE programs on your computer, or finds any lag inducing programs open, perhaps the bot could *kill someone for 10 minutes and basically force the team to sub them, or not recruit people like that in the first place.

That probably breaks a law or two (can you say spyware?).

[Izor]

That probably breaks a law or two (can you say spyware?).

WoW has a spyware prog like that but its legal since you agree to it in the ToS.

[genocidal]

Hero has the best bam ashlee sig quote so far, I think.

[Reaver]

What do you mean we dont have a right to play? bahahaha. I know many people who have bought this game in stores, that used their own money to get this game, and you're saying the don't have the right to play? They have the most right to play. For me though, I downloaded it. I have a right to play too, its not a damn privilege to play this game. Its free, its for the general public to play. And for you saying that PL should just ban him without evidence that he cheated? Are you fucking stupid? He needs evidence in order to ban him, and if there is no sufficient evidence then he can't. It's like if you say "Hero said N**" that is enough evidence for you to ban me? No. Staff has to see it, or TWBot. Innocent untill proven guilty, boiii.

Edit: not to mention the people who have supported TW by sending in money have a right to play this game.

If you bought the game you have a copy of the software to play, but you need to connect to their server to play with other people. It costs money to run the server, and Pritk is the one paying. None of us are paying for it, so no, we don't have the right to play. You have a right to play the game by yourself. And if you still think you have a right to play this game, what are you going to do if they stop paying for the server and no more TW, sue?

I wasn't even there and someone posted a screenshot of leathargy with Shields on and still in the match. That's some evidence for you. Someone said he was 13-1, don't know that to be true, but if that's the case, I don't think he only has 1 death because he was doing alot of dodging. There is some more evidence for you. But anyways, beyond the whole lethargy thing, the way they handle cheaters on TW is a joke. First off, the majority of these guys just evade their ban, so what is the big deal banning a cheater for a year? They'll be on a day or two later under a different alias. Eventually, the cheaters will be weeded out, the people that don't cheat will still have the same name, and all the people that do cheat will have new names. Intelligent squad captains won't recruit the newly named cheaters.
:P
P.S. I donated money to TW and I don't think that grants me the right to play.

[Kolar]

But anyways, beyond the whole lethargy thing, the way they handle cheaters on TW is a joke. First off, the majority of these guys just evade their ban, so what is the big deal banning a cheater for a year? They'll be on a day or two later under a different alias.

What do you want tw staff to do?

[Ephemeral]

What do you mean we dont have a right to play? bahahaha. I know many people who have bought this game in stores, that used their own money to get this game, and you're saying the don't have the right to play? They have the most right to play. For me though, I downloaded it. I have a right to play too, its not a damn privilege to play this game. Its free, its for the general public to play. And for you saying that PL should just ban him without evidence that he cheated? Are you fucking stupid? He needs evidence in order to ban him, and if there is no sufficient evidence then he can't. It's like if you say "Hero said N**" that is enough evidence for you to ban me? No. Staff has to see it, or TWBot. Innocent untill proven guilty, boiii.

Edit: not to mention the people who have supported TW by sending in money have a right to play this game.

LOL, I bought the CD. So what? Your logic is flawed, your personal insults are uncalled for. GG for taking this special time to make an ass of yourself, keep up the good work.

[genocidal]

Don't reply to the useless drivel Hero calls substance in his posts. Just make fun of him for advertising the fact that an online 16 year old girl thinks he's cute.

[Hero*]

I have a right to play this game the way i want and you cant do shit about it. I am not obligated to play a certain way, its free, and its there for the PUBLIC to use. If Priitk or whoever pays for the server didnt want people to use it he could just not let them play on it. But he is giving us all an opertunity to play, and we have a right to. Its not a privliege that he lets use it. If it was he wouldn't have created it.

[Reaver]

I have a right to play this game the way i want and you cant do shit about it. I am not obligated to play a certain way, its free, and its there for the PUBLIC to use. If Priitk or whoever pays for the server didnt want people to use it he could just not let them play on it. But he is giving us all an opertunity to play, and we have a right to. Its not a privliege that he lets use it. If it was he wouldn't have created it.

In an earlier post you said that you had a right to play it, now your saying you have a right to play it how you want... So which one are you sticking by? In one of the sentences in this post you said something like "he is giving us all an opportunity to play it, and we have a right to", this is just wrong. I don't have a problem with you, but your reality is way off.

Kolar --

I could go on and on, but it's pointless, because it won't change a thing. If I could have one thing changed, it would be to bring back permanent bans, and use them on anyone cought using CE or gashi or any other types of those programs. "No tolerance" policy.