Roboboy Vote

[Kolar]

Squads and small groups would abuse it and I think we've learned that bots can not replace Moderators.

[pipo]

an auto-ban on tk bot wouldnt do the trick. to many tk's are indirect, and it cant be used as a tool to leeten up the pub, only to prevent abuse, which like allready said, doesnt occur that much at pub 0. Also, because ythe vote would be for a shipchange, and not a pub ban, the lameness gain of voting would be to low for most to abuse. If the voting rights are only given to players with a usage above.......100 days... or so..then ppl cant screw around with new accounts either. There could even be a rule stating that you cant vote more then once/hour and will be banned from pub when your vote is answered 3 times by a collective no.The voting could even only involve javs and sharks and perhaps ters, because those are the only ships that can ruin a game when flew incorrectly.
ppl could vote for example against:
-tk-ing javs from driving ter
-tk-ing javs in and around base
-in base mine laying sharks
-on attack mine laying sharks
-towards team repelling sharks
etc etc..

I think that most ppl that think its abuse sensitive have little to no experience on playing at the basing pub.. the core players alone make up 80% of this pub.. lamers wouldnt be able to login that massivly.besides..its a serious pub....ppl wouldn't participate in false votes.
Didnt EG have a votesystem?

Anyway..i see this as a opportunity to filter out that last bit of noobness of pub0. It happens a lot that good games are dominated by the stupidity of just 1 or 2 javs/sharks that just refuse to change their strategy/ships.

[Kolar]

A voting system will be dominated by squads/groups of people not watching out for team killers or anything like that, it will be there to limit access to ships people want to play.. tkers or not. There is no way you can stop people from abusing an open or closed system.

In some way Roboboy and girl need to allow Moderators and Event Refs to lock/restrict players from using a shark/jav/levi as it does shipset now (which is a bad idea anyways, Sharks tk by accident often) once A: We know they're gonna repeat offend but haven't gone the extra step. B: banning them hasn't solved the problem. C: Watching them becomes too boring. Adding an alias check to the bot wouldn't be that hard either. I wouldn't trust any player to decide if and what I can play.

Edit: Making the game play fun in publics is a completely different issue. This is about dealing with team killing only, not rooting out "noobness" or whatever. As I see it now publics are mostly dead and not because people are team killing everywhere, it becomes boring when all your efforts are wasted by 1 or 2 weasels or the 20 private freqs turns the public into a mini DM game.

[pipo]

A voting system will be dominated by squads/groups of people not watching out for team killers or anything like that, it will be there to limit access to ships people want to play.. tkers or not. There is no way you can stop people from abusing an open or closed system.

In some way Roboboy and girl need to allow Moderators and Event Refs to lock/restrict players from using a shark/jav/levi as it does shipset now (which is a bad idea anyways, Sharks tk by accident often) once A: We know they're gonna repeat offend but haven't gone the extra step. B: banning them hasn't solved the problem. C: Watching them becomes too boring. Adding an alias check to the bot wouldn't be that hard either. I wouldn't trust any player to decide if and what I can play.

Edit: Making the game play fun in publics is a completely different issue. This is about dealing with team killing only, not rooting out "noobness" or whatever. As I see it now publics are mostly dead and not because people are team killing everywhere, it becomes boring when all your efforts are wasted by 1 or 2 weasels or the 20 private freqs turns the public into a mini DM game.

Again...this is a very true statement.. for allmost all pubs, but NOT the one im talking about..tk-s that teamkill on purpose are a rare deal there..and a private squad will never dominate that server..and if they do, they want to win, and wont sabotage their own team to screw around. Pub0 is not dominated by tk-ers, so a ban-bot gives no solution.
The whole discussions comes to this:
**poll start**
Will voting be abused at pub 0 or not.
**poll end**
I vote NO, it wont.

[Kolar]

...

I've been staff in this zone for over a year now and played public for nearly 7 years. I know where team killers are, I can't say they all hang around pure publics nor can you say they don't but a lot of cheater calls do orginate from pures. In either case the bots running the pure publics are a model for future upgrades to the entire public system, lets stop focusing only on pure publics.


If squads are given the power to restrict what select players can play then they'll do it. I don't get this idea of public players being different from regular players, sure some more experienced players may visit it more often but overall the problems and norms of the zone are there aswell.
People will not be unbias, fair and 'nice' to each other, they'll see it as another way to piss someone off and if it means social groups enter into this then we'll see more kids comming out of publics with these ideas of being "elite".

[pipo]

ok..lets imagine you are right(which im confinced about you'r not)
-Voteright only for ppl with a usage above 100 days (or any amount)
-Voteright once/hour only (or any amount of time)
-Voteright gets revoked after twice collective No's (Or any amount)
-Voteright only against ppl from own team
-Votes only possible against javs and sharks for a 15 minute shiptype-ban.
-Abusereport possibility
Teams are 16 ppl strong and i NEVER see the majority of 1 team being 1 squad..
abuse sensitivity is much much lower then ppl suggest B)

[Kolar]

..

People will find a way to abuse it no matter what you say or what solution is actually used. I think this is too complicated, most ideas are killed that way but you're not going to convince me so write up a TWPS. Reforming publics and getting TWL started should be our priority for now, enhancing the bots should be next in getting better tools for staffers to keep repeat offenders and shit disturbers out but the situation is not so bad. There is no way players can take part in restricting players' access to ships or gameplay beyond reporting it to staffers.

[Troll King]

That's way more complicated than it should be, Pipo, and there are still holes in your restrictions. Adding more will just further complicate them. The average player will look at all those restrictions and say it's just not worth the trouble.

You're also operating under the assumption that there won't be any flaws just because it's mostly the experienced players and TeamKilling is rare. If that were true, then none of this would even be necessary. As for your assumption that abuse will be rare, I can already even think of several people who would go into there and start abusing this if it were enacted. It will happen. You might not think that the crowd of people who regularly play there will abuse this, which is a debatable statement, but there are people who may be from outside that regular crowd, and there's nothing stopping them from going in and abusing this either.

[Zabuza]

Indeed, it would occur a constant spam from the bot asking to place a vote on a specified player. Bad idea

Pure pub is good

But again, this is a Pure Pub, and like 90% of people there are not gonna abuse the vote... also again if the limit is like 1 poll start per 10 minutes per person the will be no problem whatsoever.

[pipo]

That's way more complicated than it should be, Pipo, and there are still holes in your restrictions. Adding more will just further complicate them. The average player will look at all those restrictions and say it's just not worth the trouble.

You're also operating under the assumption that there won't be any flaws just because it's mostly the experienced players and TeamKilling is rare. If that were true, then none of this would even be necessary. As for your assumption that abuse will be rare, I can already even think of several people who would go into there and start abusing this if it were enacted. It will happen. You might not think that the crowd of people who regularly play there will abuse this, which is a debatable statement, but there are people who may be from outside that regular crowd, and there's nothing stopping them from going in and abusing this either.

Zabuza is right.. a voting system can be implemanted with the propper restrictions, that does not allow for abuse at all..i stated some possible bot-usage restrictions in the previous post..somehow you must have misinterpreted them, because if implemented they'll be coded in the bot, and not something a player needs to learn and utilise. However, i think Kolar might have the final word in this, and his mind seems to be made up..so i guess the suggestion is off.


The reason why i came with the suggestion at all is that the gameplay at pub0 is so close to perfect, that it gives it an uncanny valley, shifting the focus to that few persons that enter the game every...2/3 hours and f*ck up. Therefore let my suggestion be a compliment to the quality of pub 0 B)

[Kolar]

Last time I'll say this:

1: I don't have the final say here, move onto TWPS if you actually care.

2: Public players are no better or worse then the regulars in any arena.

3: The issues of quility have nothing to do with team killing, cheating or other illegal activities.

[Mootland Farmer]

Publics are there so that players can play whatever ship they want. Team-killing sucks, and god knows how many times I've been teamkilled while Sharking. Most of it is not intentional, so just suck it up half the time unless the guy is purposely teamkilling (how is a bot able to decide that?) then call in a Moderator in. Maybe you should encourage players to play ships that "qualify" as basing, and telling them the advantages/disadvantages of ships, and their roles in the game?

People's perception of quality and fun varies. I found ?go base games became shit (rinse and repeat) after awhile, and I found the chaotic and unorganised games of Pure Public more entertaining and challenging (tried dodging 24134 bullets or repping which bomb?).

I am in a state of mind of whether or not to write a TWSP for Publics for something you can probably guess, with ideas from various threads and my noggin. Some of you may be in shock if you knew what I was planning, but it may be the right thing to do. If you're wondering what I'm talking about, contact me in game.