In Protest of Ship Limits in Pure Pub

[laureth]

genocidal look if you want to tk people using levi didn't you know jav works just as well?

[Troll King]

Doesn't matter to me, I can only be in one pub at a time and coincidentally it'll be the one where the 2weekers aren't practicing their same shot every jav does from the flagroom with 0 enemies on radar when they should be moving out and holding the other freq completely in spawn. I don't need the retarded of the retards to be playing on my team EVER. There'll be more tking in other pubs? Well tell them to go to a private arena, or force them by limiting the javs in all of the other pubs, there's still a free jav range in the 2nd pub isn't there? That one doesn't much get the timed thing I know, but it still has no levis, private freqs are another matter but hey you guys who love jav so much can start a priv full of nothing but javs and show how awesome the ship is while dominating the fr with a melee of random ass radius placements that by sheer size of the radius in this zone causes all your enemies and (most liekly) a few (if not all) of your teammates (who are low on nrg from firing) to die. But hey why limit the ship right, we totally need freedom to be tked on attach (with or without the terr going with you) EVERYTIME.

If this fix is so distressing to you troll king wouldn't you be hard pressed to use that instructor's well trained mind to fix the jav? If we don't get to limit them at least SOMEPLACE there STILL needs to be something done about them. So WHAT is it?

I've posted plenty of suggestions already, but most of them require more work than a simple ship limit. They do however have the added benefits of improving other areas of pubs, not just the jav problem.

Why is it that every time I criticize one of staff's "improvements", people keep challenging me to stop whining and start thinking of better options, when I already have presented several ideas in several threads over several years? It's not like I'm criticizing just for the sake of criticizing, I've been presenting alternatives.

[Richard Creager]

You can throw "suggestions" around all fucking day but until you DECIDE what the hell it is you THINK SHOULD be CHANGED I will continue to tell you to stop whining UNTIL you make your stance fucking clear on where you think the ships should be.
Again I ask you, WHAT THE FUCK IS IT?

[Mootland Farmer]

I am with Troll King on this one, and have almost always been. The overall goal is to make all Public arenas "enjoyable" at any given time. Also, the point of Publics is too let yiou play whatever ship you want. Saying you can play javelin in another arena is beside the point. Naturally players are going to want to go to arenas without teamkilling, but it's part of the game, just like spawning apparently. And that's why we have moderators, to look out for teamkilling amoung other things.

What I am saying is that there are better ways to make Publics more "enjoyable" as Troll King has suggested, without making one good Public arena and screwing the others.

[Mootland Farmer]

If you look in any of the Public threads over the (must be years now) Troll Kings ideas are stated there.

[Da1andonly]

:roboboy:/!jav

in order

[Troll King]

You can throw "suggestions" around all fucking day but until you DECIDE what the hell it is you THINK SHOULD be CHANGED I will continue to tell you to stop whining UNTIL you make your stance fucking clear on where you think the ships should be.
Again I ask you, WHAT THE FUCK IS IT?

I've made my stance clear in each instance. Each of my "suggestions" are serious ideas that "I THINK SHOULD BE CHANGED". How much clearer do I have to make it? You're basically asking me to stop talking about what I want done and start saying that I want it done. My philosophy is to focus on the reasons that cause problems in pubs and target them, instead of things like an overreliance on bots and increased ship limitations which are only band-aid solutions that help a few while pushing the problems onto others.

I think that arena population sizes are too big. Fewer people in an arena will mean fewer TKs.

I think the map needs adjustments so that Javs won't have safe spots they can shoot from. Javs can continue to sit and lob, but let's make it more dangerous for them to do so. Force them closer to the tunnel where more action and explosions are.

I think the the flag room should be larger. More space would make bombs less effective and put more emphasis on bullets. This would also make it easier to survive levi blasts in regular pubs flag rooms.

I think there should be an outer barrier, almost like a dome, that circles over the flag room. This barrier wouldn't be impenetrable but have sniper holes in it. This would do many things: a) make it harder, but not necessarily impossible, for roofers (especially jav roofers) to make their shots; b) just like the ones coming up from below through mid base, mini-weasels on the roof would have another series of walls and holes to navigate through before approaching the flag room. This would give the defence more time to react to incoming cloakers from above. c) combined with a larger, wider flag room, levi shots will be a bit more limited in how they can hit the flag room

I think there should be some other target besides the base that would attract levis and javs. Right now, levis have one obvious target to shoot at: the flag room. If we give them something else to shoot at, preferably closer to the spawn area, fewer of them will make the extra effort of heading up to the roof. I like this option because it improves basing while not taking away from levis; while I prefer to help encourage basing, this is something that even levis might like as well.

I think the base itself takes up too little of the overall map. There's too much space and the base is not prominant enough. Combined with a smaller arena population size, we could have tighter, more focused arenas.


These are just some of the things I've brought up in the past that "I THINK SHOULD BE CHANGED". I think that any of these changes would improve all pubs, not just the pure pubs. I also think that a couple of these changes in combination would have a cumulative effect. Ideally, I think all of these changes should be made, if not at least investigated. Is that good enough for you Richie? Or do you think I still don't have a clear stance?

[Shadowmere]

People can never be happy.

Different people want different things.

TW is made out of hundreds of events, a large staff to host them, and they keep making the settings more and more better for the most people.

First they ask for oppinions, then they got positive comments about them, change them, and once again people start bugging staff to change them somehow.

Give them time. There were hundreds of players wanting the pub to be changed, and it was. If you want them changed back, or changed into a different way, then do something for them. Arguing and whining about the things that bother you isnt the way to go.

Help staff to make the changes.

There should always be different ways to play a similar place. There are many pub arenas, help the TW staff make the changes to some place they yet havent done any changes to. There are many pubs to be changed.

[Troll King]

If these changes were meant to make "the settings more and more better for the most people" then why is it that only one pub arena gets the benefits at the expense of the majority? When was the last change staff made that helped all pubs, not just pure pubs? I understand what you're saying, but my point is that they're going about these changes the wrong way.

It's not like I'm coming in with these suggestions right now or raising the same concerns with this recent change for the first time. I made similar comments in the same survey thread that gathered peoples' opinions, and in several threads before that. Staff has been making band-aid solution after band-aid solution, but in each case, only a minority benefit, and the "solution" creates other problems.

I keep hearing people say "stop whining and help already" but I've been presenting these ideas for whole years now. The worst part is that very few people even bother replying to my ideas. I know they aren't perfect, in many threads I acknowledge the faults myself. But at the very least, there should be more discussion yet people just continue to focus on band-aids with very narrow scope.

[Doc Flabby]

some of the most fun days in tw are when the bots go down in pub and you can shoot the crap outta all the basers in a LT.

if basers want a basing arena automate ?go base in someway ?go AutoBase or something so it would be like pub 0 is at the moment and leave pub alone. pub isnt just about basing.

[Shadowmere]

TK, Im not judging your attempts on trying to help the zone and make it better.

However as you said yourself, people come here and say "stop whining and help already". The reason for this is, even thuogh it's pointless to say it, is that staff cant do anything without ideas.

Staff needs the ideas, no matter where they come from, if they are good, they'll be edited to a bit even better form, and then put to use.

It's not like staff on purpose tries to make the pubs suck.

You already do know what I mean so its 1337 =)

[Troll King]

And my point is people keep saying things like "staff cant do anything without ideas" in response to me even though it is clear that I am presenting ideas. When I present ideas, people rarely discuss them, and when I critique changes people do discuss, they say "if you're so smart, you think of something better!".

[Mantra-Slider]

EDIT: An update on my complaints: if you want to play jav it's damn near impossible unless you get lucky. Plus, if you try to change to jav it specs you (which means you won't get the maximum amount of points for your team or get MVP) and if you do it too much it disconnects you and you have to spend another 2 minutes trying to get into pub 0. You really should have thought this through before just doing it.

agreed on your edited part. This thing really needs some modification maybe a waiting list or w/e but I got disconnected 2 times from pub only cos I tried to jav during a 15 minute period.. how else am I suppose to know there is a free jav spot unless I try to change my ship to jav?
besides, limit it to 3 is way too few

[Doc Flabby]

agreed on your edited part. This thing really needs some modification maybe a waiting list or w/e but I got disconnected 2 times from pub only cos I tried to jav during a 15 minute period.. how else am I suppose to know there is a free jav spot unless I try to change my ship to jav?
besides, limit it to 3 is way too few

The limit of 0 levis in pub is also way too few.


levi are the lifeblood of pub but basers have taken pub over

next on the endagerered species list is the jav and weasel.

Im sure lanc and wb arnt far behind.

soon the only ships left will be shark/spider/terrier.


now the levi is out the way the basers are focusing there attack on the jav. cos people arnt allowed to have fun in a ship oh no they HAVE to base. cose basing IS fun. i cant think of another zone where they retrict a ship in pub, pub should be just that where players can practice and play ANYSHIP

[genocidal]

I don't see a reason concrete solutions must be given when the fact of the mattter is that the pubs were all better off without this quick fix. Nevertheless, TK has given some pretty good ideas that Sertifi isn't talking about, probably because he spends him time asking to join staff.

I think the map change is a good idea to make the flag room bigger. I'm not so sure about the 2 walled base with sniper holes though because I think roof javing and LTing are both fun aspects of TW publics and aren't that big of a deal. Plus, widening the flag room, like TK said, would make levis less effective already.

I think a bigger FR entrance, and maybe multiple FR entrances would help at making the jav a less effective ship in the FR, but we should be careful not to destroy the ship totally.

The essence of TK's argument that nobody has been addressing is how he proposes we solve the problems. Instead of forcing players to play in only one pub because it's the best, force players to stop playing levis, or force them to stop playing javs we should approach the problems from an incentives direction. Instead of making people do things with limits we should try to think of ways to make people want to stop doing the things that irritate us and, in our opinion, make the games worse - like TKing.