On the issue of lag: The real story

[Jason]

Ruby, Tony was just pointing out that you were being a bit ignorant. Don't take it to heart as there are many other people who are quick to say "NORTH AMERICAN SERVER! YEAH!" before taking the time to think about what such an endeavor would entail.

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Originally posted by Ruby


Your maturity is outstanding.

This, coming from a chronic user of "STFU" and the always-popular "-NT-".

[brookus]

Originally posted by Ruby
Did you read my post? Where the hell did buying a server come in? Jeese...

You're right! I forgot about all those free servers I get sent in the mail. Jeez. Those things are worse than aol CDs. And bandwidth? Lordy. That DS3 I have is just way too much for me. A T1 would do me fine.

You want sponsorship? So you're willing to have popup ads while you play? Or "stab killed by: Domi (this kill is brought to you by the smooth refreshing flavor of Pepsi)"? I'd rather live with the free laggy game I play now.

It sounds like what you want is for some company to give us server space and bandwidth out of the goodness of their hearts. While it could certainly happen, it's rare. As I understand it, this is the situation we have with TW (I could be wrong though), so it does happen. If you devote the time to the research you may stumble upon something. Good luck. Let us know what you find.

llater,
Tony

[Downdraft]

1 year ago i had 35 % pl in TW still dunno y...i tweeked my cable cause it was either that or quit ss cause i only play tw and somehow i started having -70 % pl S2C and yet i managed to play rather well even at elim and i could kill nearly 75 % of my hits BUT every1 who specced me would have a very hard time seeing me since i jumped all the time...i'm sry epi like 2d said i usually agree with ur opinions but i must go against u on this 1

[2dragons]

To Azhran - yeppers you are right, comming on 1 number that everyone can agree on is near impossible

To Pearl Jam - My apologies then. I only based what I said on every other post you'd had concerning lag and me. Not one of them showed any statement of fact only such things as telling me to read this again and again or saying that I"m totally wrong or asking for me to admit how wrong I am. I don't believe my post flames you in any manner if so I'm sorry. More does it confront your posts on me.

I've seen your kind plenty of times on all kinds of forums/debates. You come in here, flashing your big vocabulary (takes you longer to post thinking of those big words - trust me, I know) trying to hide under the guise of the educated nice guy when all you're doing is posting masqued flames.

Uneeded, I don't have to think to type. Please lets not take this away from the discussion of lag and what can be done. I don't personally want to have individiual issues.

Furthermore, I know I don't speak for myself when I address this issue. I know there are plenty of others that would back me up here.

Nor do I.

Oh yeah...cede that I'm wrong? How am I wrong?

Only in the fact that what ever you have agreed with is not the full truth, as it isn't. For once I'd just like you to accept that I may actually not like my lag and I don't think it is a benefit. All I've heard you say is how much it helps me and how much it hurts you. That isn't the full truth either.

To Jason - I C I'm now up to 22 lagouts. Tomorrow it will probably be 25. You had no hand in the game for either side. You've never played on my lag so you have no clue about anything. A lot of bullets may be lost on me, a lot of bullets people think are lost on me but actually hit me, and also a lot of my bombs are lost on them.

And finally to Conc -

You explained in your message exactly what I say. Due to the increase in people and arena lag I lagout more. Just to put it into light. Say most people were about 200 ms ping so with a lot of people it may go up a 100 ms or os, still not enough to lagout. Meanwhile I have a lag of around 400 ms but with that extra 100 ms it is enough to through me into spec occasionly. (now of course my numbers are all made up but this is what my playing seems to show) I say this as in private games I don't lagout and in a couple TWLB this season I haven't lagged out, most generally this is when less people are in the arena.

some of your reasons are really quite outlandish.

None of them are. Not a single one. I feel often the same way about everyone else that is so one-minded on this issue.

The fact remains, would YOU like to play against someone with ridiculous lag?

Remember when Sika lagged? Blood? Both of them at one time lagged similar to myself, I was angry, but I then got laggy myself and understood perfectly what they deal with. I've played against laggers before with little woe and I will more so now that I understand better.

[Roxy]

god that was a long read...and it has all been said before

<3 epi

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Okay, just so everyone's on the same page... this isn't about 2D in particular, it just happens to concern him.

All Epi (and others, myself included) are saying is that the lag limit should either be lowered or there should be a lag out limit for basing arenas (such as the one offered by Shade's thread).

Yes, this WILL limit some people from playing, but arguably not most.

[2dragons]

How's this. I've accepted my ability to lag through some bullets is a bit unfair regardless of the disadvantages I pose I have. I won't try furthermore to convince you otherwise, it really isn't doing much but to compound the issue.

Before I said I wouldn't play TWLB again unless certain things occured. Due to me asking a week prior and not recieving any negative word and the information that the settings were tweaked by Acid, that compounded by my squad asking me to play as my replacment jav couldn't jav I decided to play. Obviously the wrong decision in hindsight and obviously I played not only because of that but because I also simply wanted to play.

Now half you of you will probably say I'll lie, if so that is fine you didn't fully understand my level of commitment before nor do you know it now. I'll simply not play till I get on a different connection. I won't set any personal stipulations for reasons I might play as before. Unless I'm off this dialup at my house I will not play. I want this to end, I don't want people more angered than they already are at me. Not my style in general. So may we just end this post and move on towards finding a solution to lagging in TWLB? Please do not comment on my decision regardless if you think I'm just lying to please you or if you think I'll really not play.

To those I offended sorry there but I felt strongly on this issue and still do. I will not however allow any more posts as the first one on this thread to occur without replying as the information is not entirely correct and I'd still like to try and help make people understand that.

[Epinephrine]

To make it perfectly clear my post is not talking about anyone in particular.

As Louis XV said, it's very easy to cheat and induce lag in this game. That being said, if there were stricter lag limits in place these people would have to stop. If lag was so bad, why do so many people purposefully induce it huh?

Also if there were stricter lag limits in place, people who do have 400 ms ping would not be allowed to play, thus making league much more enjoyable for everyone else.

I don't care how bad your lag makes you play personally. The fact is when you're playing a league game (twld/twlj/twlb) and someone is lagging really badly, it completely affects the other team. It screws up games, and makes them not fun when someone tanks through all your bombs/bullets and then you get killed.

I personally could not play in Pro League all last season because of extremely strict lag limits but I'm mature enough to understand why the limits are in place, and I still support the idea of lag limits wholeheartedly.

Lag makes everything you do random. As a player on a team if I hit a lagger I have absolutely no idea if they are going to die or not. I also have no idea when they might shoot me, espeically if they are jumpy (which happens at that lag range). Basically it makes the game random, and league should be about skill, not about random factors into determining the games.

Finally, if lag was really so bad why would squads play laggers in IMPORTANT games? Obviously lag gives you an advantage. Obvoiusly lag is a good thing (esp since in TWLB there are no lagout limits lol). Obviously if a large number of players purposefully induce lag it must be good. These things must be taken into consideration.

-Epi

[Ataris]

Agree/Disagree

I would love a north american server but I am fine where I am now. Some days people w/ 56k hell even cable and such have good and bad days w/ lag

I know my ave is around 280-300 but somedays i will get a 320-400 ping and its not my fault. But in leagues I agree they do put in the laggier players to have an advantage but giong into a north american server would be to complicated. Even if the servers were combined into one someplace (more complicated) it would still be a pain. I can understand Priitk Lives over there and here in america it would be hard to find a trusting person when they live so far away. SO finland server ---> Deal w/ it

lag could be a lil stricter like watching them during games and checking lag and setting a restriction or so would be nice but who knows.

My thoughts w/ others

[destroy]

whats wrong with you people? why are you guys picking on 2d, the nicest guy in all TW?

this thread is more of like Pallies whining because they lack aim and skill, and they just want to blame it all on 2d's lag

FAGTASTIC

[ConcreteSchlyrd]

Hi Destroy, my name is the PgUp key. Perhaps we haven't met.

[2dragons]

No epi you are wrong. Some teams may play their laggers and some may not. It depends on the team and the players individual skill not his lag. I hate to even hear anyone suggest lag as a substitute for skill.

A lot of people like their lag a lot of people don't like thier lag. Some people like their good connection and some would like to have a laggier one.

Lagging is not completely random. With my 400ms ping in TWLD/TWLJ nearly EVERY shot is true for everyteam when it deals with me. There is no randomness to it....

[Epinephrine]

Originally posted by 2dragons
Lagging is not completely random. With my 400ms ping in TWLD/TWLJ nearly EVERY shot is true for everyteam when it deals with me. There is no randomness to it....

I read that over three times and I still have no idea you just said there. If you want to talk about you personally, everytime that I've played you in a scrim recently you've been next to impossible to kill and the subject of many 'wtfs' and 'lols' on chat while you were not dying after repeated hits.

Although I stress again. This is not about you, it's about all laggers in general. Lag does league no good. I can see no arguement into letting huge laggers play in league except the old "everyone should get a chance". Well guess what? League is a privilage, not a right in the zone. If you want to play, play pub where there are no lag limits.

-Epi

[Blood]

2dragons, I remember a certain basematch where you played against Siege, as a jav like usually. After that match I was furious, you kept just flying into our base through our whole team and killing off our terr and staying alive after that. If you would have had 30ms and ping .1 ploss, you would've died before you even got out of the entrance. It is very obvious that there is a huge advantage to lag in these situations.
I also remember a WB prac where I played for WildFire as JeDu against Light. I couldn't see anyone lagging, I thought it was just going normally like always, I ended up 19-10. I was surprised when you and some other Light member started accusing me of lag cheats, I had no idea I was lagging, my ping and ploss were low like always, but you guys claimed I was jumping and ignoring your bullets and so on. At that time you admitted that there is a huge advantage to lag, even though you might not remember it.