Distension Beta Suggestions/Bugfix thread

[Mjollnir]

I'll have to call bullshit on that simply because i've been there when that didn't happen, and it was quite recently.

It must have been a weird game then. I guess I'll have to say almost always then.

[Chao.]

The fact that the team that has more sharks always wins, tells a lot about their current power.

I'll have to call bullshit on that simply because i've been there when that didn't happen, and it was quite recently.

[Viruk]

A couple of things I noticed in the latest game:

Why does the ratio in MVP victory stats sometimes contain a '?'
Why do some players have a rank of under 39? (I keep getting 'humiliated' :P)

[Viruk]

Lancasters - I just started playing it agian last night. without specializing, and without fulling upgrading, i was able to get an 8 kill streak w/o dying once. The reason for the streak, i think, was that the lanc might be kinda high on energy

Now that the advanced scout has been merged into scout you shouldn't have to specialize to get a competitive ship anymore.

I was able to get a 19 streak with my L2 scout Lanc and I consistently get higher streaks in my Lanc than anything else. I don't think this is because it is particularly high in any one thing but that it was adequate fighter in all respects (although I had to totally max out its thrust and speed to get this). At current levels twin-firing fast L2s are fine for killing most ships at mid/close range in a busy FR even if the fire delay seems a little higher than the pub version. Its multifire and leeching were also useful in many situations although I didn't need either for most of my kills. It can't tank L3s and is a poor sniper but is fine for its role as dogfighter/vulcher/anti-weasel as it has no other serious weaknesses.
I expect skilled spiders to surpass it at higher levels when they get L2s and enough energy and thrust to use them effectively even without their super and energy tanks. Right now their L1 bullets are efficient but often too weak to hunt down undamaged ships quickly without using their draining multifire.
Warbirds already surpass it as a fast sniper assassin but their aim has to be good and even then too many ships can now tank L3s or avoid them with specials and it takes time to recharge enough for a second L3 shot.

Sharks need a lot of reps because there are more mines and more enemies than traditional games

There aren't more enemies than in pub but there are more mines. If it wasn't for enemy fire then a couple of well-placed reps would still normally be enough to clear a path to the flag though.

Levis - these guys are doing just fine

I like my Levi but it struggles to recharge all that energy in a hostile environment. I tried warship then artillery but no joy. It is now Z-class and still can't tank L3s or recharge quickly despite minimal maneuvrability and no specials. Unfortunately my current team is often pretty dire and a support ship is not so useful when your team keeps dying before you are ready to support them :P It has great firepower and tanks well when charged up but its fast L2 bombs are more about EMP than damage and its L2 bullets often too slow to make the kill. It is good for supporting a stable attack or defence and has lots of future potential though.

I've been playing Javelin lately, and I find it pleasantly balanced. Yeah, you can occasionally teamfer, but it just doesn't happen with the overpower that is repels, combined with the pitiful recharge rate you get in any of the shiptypes at rank 40. It's very much the specialist ship and I'd like to keep it that way.

I had to switch my Jav to Z-class to get enough energy with a reasonable (if minimal) recharge to fire L2 bombs. It has no specials or shrap and minimal maneuvrability but it works fairly well as a bomber. I suspect it would be more efficient to stick with L1 bombs for a few more levels though. I find Levi and Jav are the only ships I have tried that had a problem with recharge rates although my Warbird and Spider were always artillery and perhaps would struggle as warships.

[DankNuggets]

RE: Lancasters - I just started playing it agian last night. without specializing, and without fulling upgrading, i was able to get an 8 kill streak w/o dying once. The reason for the streak, i think, was that the lanc might be kinda high on energy (although I can't tank lvl 3's with stock ship). I could shoot 2 lvl 3 bullets, or 3 lvl 2 bullets w/o recharging, or at the least very minimal recharge. The firebloom is still really powerful, so the later on you get it, the better off everyone else will be (although it shouldn't be too high, since where we are right now rankwise, will take a LONG time in pub release). The bomb is amazing, i think alinea and I sat shooting it constantly for at least 10 mins, the dodging aspect of it is underutilized. It's only the small radius that makes it not overpowered. Overall, I'd say raise level 3 bullet cost or raise cool down time, or slow bullet speed. Also I noted that most people were dying in fr from mulit, level 3, lanc spam instead of bursts/javs for teh first time in awhile.

RE: Sharks - I think the easiest way to nerf the shark would be a slight change to the fr we've all come to love. Remove the bricks on either side of the flag, and sharks will be ez to rep off the flag. As it is now, the only way to get the shark off the flag is to fly underneath it and rep him from below. Sharks need a lot of reps because there are more mines and more enemies than traditional games. The best aspect about the shark is definitely the multi guns for me, although i'm sure some would say the cloak is where its at.

RE: Levis - these guys are doing just fine. They are indeed one of the most annoying ships, with the ability to shoot repeated lvl 2 emps. However, their bombs are nearly impossible to rep-- i had to rep before i even saw bombs being shot, and even then it only missed me by a hair, or most of time, it ignored the rep. Not saying nerf the bomb speed of the levi, but it's an annoying combonation at the least. Also, they've got great bullet power too. I think the balancing comes with the fact that it's got little specials atm, so the boost in weapons makes sense.

[Lag.Com]

I've been playing Javelin lately, and I find it pleasantly balanced. Yeah, you can occasionally teamfer, but it just doesn't happen with the overpower that is repels, combined with the pitiful recharge rate you get in any of the shiptypes at rank 40. It's very much the specialist ship and I'd like to keep it that way.

Yeah, it's definitely repels that make sharks so strong. They seem to last forever. I've had 2 repels negate an entire javelin rocket booster before.

[Fluffz]

So you think a ship that has a chance of getting a full charge when killing, tanking a l3 bullet, having a counter to reps, having a escape mecanism(bombs), shoting l3, getting 15+ killing sprees whitout too much trouble isn't overpower?

you never played lanc. to tank l3 you need a warship which cant afford all that other stuff u mention. additionally its supposed to be a special ship you need to unlock first. you need lvl52 for usefull firebloom and i have jet to see someone use the bomb to dodge. the bullet speed in open is slow enough for everyone to avoid being hit. the ship itself also isnt the fastest, gl with that 15 kill spree.

[Mjollnir]

i quit playing lanc because of the bomb and firebloom (a natural counter to reps btw) nerf. the spider has a far higher damage output so i fail to see ur point. they are weaker than be4 specialisations.

the ship that bugs me is the Levi, it levels ultra slow and doesnt get so many kills.

the problem with sharks aint their reps, its the fact that sometimes a team with 0 sharks has to play against a team with 3 sharks. I still think that fixed frequencies are a bad idea.

I don't know what you have been smoking but we sure haven't been playing the same kind of Distension. The only point I somewhat agree with is the difference in the number of sharks / team. I did point that out in my post though. Anyone know if the rule, that a team can only have one extra Shark, compared to the other team, is in place? I still think that repels are the source of the problems, especially if the forementioned rule is in place.

[Epic li]

i quit playing lanc because of the bomb and firebloom (a natural counter to reps btw) nerf. the spider has a far higher damage output so i fail to see ur point. they are weaker than be4 specialisations.

the ship that bugs me is the Levi, it levels ultra slow and doesnt get so many kills.

the problem with sharks aint their reps, its the fact that sometimes a team with 0 sharks has to play against a team with 3 sharks. I still think that fixed frequencies are a bad idea.

So you think a ship that has a chance of getting a full charge when killing, tanking a l3 bullet, having a counter to reps, having a escape mecanism(bombs), shoting l3, getting 15+ killing sprees whitout too much trouble isn't overpower? ok.
And you fail at lev, it's an awesome ship(when i played it), and it's one of the most annoying ships atm for me
The sharks, i dunno what's the problem, but they can simply get in the base and sit on the flag fast enought with enought reps, that they are able to get the sector hold-.-

[Fluffz]

i quit playing lanc because of the bomb and firebloom (a natural counter to reps btw) nerf. the spider has a far higher damage output so i fail to see ur point. they are weaker than be4 specialisations.

the ship that bugs me is the Levi, it levels ultra slow and doesnt get so many kills.

the problem with sharks aint their reps, its the fact that sometimes a team with 0 sharks has to play against a team with 3 sharks. I still think that fixed frequencies are a bad idea.

[Mjollnir]

Ships that seem to be a tad overpowered at the moment are the Lancaster and the Shark.

Lancaster:
First off, I know Dug wants Lanc to be "a bit overpowered". Probably not this much though. Most complaints when playing seem to be about the Lancaster. I have to agree that it is extremely strong now and should probably be nerfed a little. On top of it racking a huge amount of kills, it can actually tank a blue bullet at the moment. I would like other people to comment on the ship in here because Dug doesn't usually make changes without more feedback. Anyway, I think the vast majority of the player agree with the Lanc issue.

Shark:
This is a different kind of situation. A few people posted about the Shark being overpowered before but nothing was probably done. I know Dug feels it lacks abilities and he probably doesn't want to nerf a ship that is so important to have in a team (to keep people playing it). That being said, I still think it's a little too much of a factor in a game. It's either the amount of reps or the power of the reps, that makes the Shark able to walk in the base and sit on the flag for too long. The fact that the team that has more sharks always wins, tells a lot about their current power.

I hope there are some nice abilities in stock for the Shark, so we can make the ship more enjoyable to play while nerfing the reps. It would be nice to hear some ideas about possible abilities for the ship in here as well.

[Mjollnir]

i suggest we scrap the ship specialization thing and go back to the times when there was no such thing. it kinda ruined the fun for me because everything was so unbalanced and confusing

i just like having stuff for each ship that is different. i propose everything to be manually upgradeble again.

I want rank to actually mean something. A rank 40 pilot should have a lot more abilities and power than a rank 1 pilot.

Restart everyone so they're at the beginning... so its more fair.

The game is not that unbalanced anymore but there is naturally a few things that need to be balanced again. Now that the original scout class was removed, it shouldn't be all that confusing anymore. That is because the default ship class is just fine, and you don't even have to think about the specialization if you don't want to.

Every ship is going to have more variety than before with different shiptypes and the new abilities that will be put in place. If you want to be able to manually upgrade everything use the Z-class.

The ranks were all set to level 40 for beta testing purposes and that isn't how it's going to be when Distension is released. I don't understand your argument about rank 1 and rank 40 not having a difference in power, since they clearly do. Remember that there are no rank 1 ships playing at the moment, since everyone is set to a higher rank when they sign up.

[Imperian]

i suggest we scrap the ship specialization thing and go back to the times when there was no such thing. it kinda ruined the fun for me because everything was so unbalanced and confusing

i just like having stuff for each ship that is different. i propose everything to be manually upgradeble again.

I want rank to actually mean something. A rank 40 pilot should have a lot more abilities and power than a rank 1 pilot.

Restart everyone so they're at the beginning... so its more fair.

[DankNuggets]

all seems to be moving along well. I've still only played a couple of shiptypes, but in talking to others and the fact that you've combined the scouts, it's getting easier to get a handle on how your ship will turn out in relation to the other choices.

the biggest problem i see now is the one that viruk mentioned: there are too many times when there's one shark/terr and they need to upgrade their ship. Unless they warn the team, and the team responds, the entire team ends up attaching to a semi-afk terr and spaming him with "GO TO BASE NUB!!" or similarly with a shark when it's needed to constantly rep away mines. If these people could remove themselves from the fight long enough to upgrade and still keep their participation, it would help. Not that it'll make ppl change ships to compensate, but it will probably take the heat off of them since people will know that they're upgrading and it'll help the team in the long run.

One check would be that you couldn't stay in the !refit for more than say 2 mins w/o pm'ing the bot so that people couldn't sit in afk for 99% of a round and still get 100% participation.

another question: i know you're getting sick of constantly explaining the relative "which shiptype is better" questions, but what makes the scout undesirable? It seems like there should be a middle of the road choice, and that all choices should be relatively the same, just with different distributions of high, med, low. There's already High Energy/Low Recharge, Low UP; vice versa; Low on both, high UP; Var, high UP; and then scout with Med all-around. I kept hearing stuff about one ship being potentially "better" than the others. I would say that they should be on par with each other, and that the "better" should be at the descetion of the player. Maybe you meant it was better at a certain rank, but in the end, there really shouldn't be a "better" choice, or you'll end up like before with everyone following one path.

[gdugwyler]

The idea of a refitting mode is an interesting one. It would keep the teams balanced while there were AFKs and take the pressure off. I'm trying to think of a way for it to work with the current architecture of the bot ... hmm, there may be a way in which it would work. It would just require a player to issue a command to enter the mode (as you suggest) but probably also a command to exit it, in order to save the data properly.

The losing award is bolstered by the round time played, yes. In fact a losing award isn't given unless at least 15 minutes were played. There does seem to be something off in the calculation (still not where it should be), but note that it's not as severe as you state it. I think a lot of players on the losing side will confuse the total award (often something like 20K) while not realizing that indeed that amount is split between every member of the winning team. The total award given to the losing team, however, is not shown, making it difficult to see the difference. In the particular pasted case, it was also an end-war event, giving the winning team x2 RP -- and that multiplier doesn't carry over to the losers. Still, 300-400RP is pretty much just a slap in the face to the losing team ... at the very least it should be worth at least twice as much as your average kill. Speaking of, how are the round win awards at present? Are they still not being scaled up enough? 3K RP doesn't sound that great when each kill gives you about 250-300. (Though, the amount shown on the display is not boosted by the RP bonus ... maybe the issue of the loser's bonus is that it's not displaying the adjustment? I'll check it out.)

And I'll see about adding the % time the flag(s) were/was held for each freq.

Also, figured out the reason there are no breaks: we've been playing a lot of single flag, and single flag doesn't have sector breaks, only holds.

How do the modified ship types feel? If this job is anything like the one I get paid for, no news is usually reasonably good news. I had a chance to try them out myself, didn't see any glaring problems on an initial pass. Note that rearming had to be slowed down a bit (we had a recycle...) because there are significantly more energy and recharge upgrades. I guess the message cap is still not low enough to prevent it. Eh.