Distension Beta Suggestions/Bugfix thread

[gdugwyler]

U(n)=U(n-1)*1.3 is a formula you can use for any level.

The only problem I found with a small increment on the initial levels is that it's actually sometimes theoretically easier to level on later ranks, due to the way the points are given out. Starting with 1.65 seems to jack it up nicely at the beginning, and then the 1.15 levels it off after 10, while still providing a good challenge. But it will I'm sure need tweaking as we go.

Re: terr regeneration, it was reduced to 5% per upgrade with a max of 50%. Hopefully this will work well enough. Getting a full 50% is pretty high up in the levels for terrs, and this makes sense considering they'll be struggling to get away from thors, L2 jav bombs, shrapnel, multifire from most ships, etc.

Sharks have only L1 bullets (this means 520 damage; dmg can't be adjusted per-ship unfortunately). This will only result in one-hit kills for the very low levels or those who are simply low on energy. Again, essentially a can of mace -- it's probably not going to kill the person trying to attack you, but it will perhaps make them think twice about rushing you. This will also give a shark something to be able to fire while moving in reverse, normally a very weak position for it. However, the bullet is still quite slow and might have its velocity reduced to almost nothing if moving too quickly in reverse ...

Also, you mentioned sharks EMPing and then firing this bullet -- a somewhat unfortunate key difference in this game is that sharks do not have EMP. This was done so that EMP can be given a different damage level (about 30% of normal dmg) and the levi can be made into a basing ship while still retaining fast bombing capability. Sharks being given guns is a way to return to them a bit of that lost power. (They also have the option for multifire, as does every other ship.) They also have a somewhat unexpected ability awaiting them in the later levels...

[gdugwyler]

Hot new updates

There have been quite a few updates since the last post, but the big one is:

- Lancaster has been added. All ships are now in. Lanc unlocks at rank 10 in beta; this means you'll need to rank up any ship to 10 or more to unlock it. In public release the unlock mechanism will be different.

Also,

- Cutoff for "high" rate of increase to "low" rate of increase reduced from level 10 to level 9. This may not seem like much, but the difference may be something on the order of 400-500 points on the very first level it affects (level 10). This will also mean 400-500(+15%) less points required for every level after, meaning a pretty significant drop in RP required for those difficult teen years. Hopefully this will keep the good times rolling a little bit longer. A mirror change with this one will be a slight increase of points required for high ranks (probably for 50 onward) to compensate. Note that rank 50 is meant to equal roughly "TW stock +150%" -- that's how the game has been designed at any rate. After this level most ships are generally considered maxed in terms of standard upgrades. All that usually will remain will be a few special abilities, particularly some ridiculous "trophy" abilities such as Jav L3 bombs.

- The assist system should be getting close to decent. This is a significant hurdle that we have to cross over if the game is to succeed in its present form. Let me know if you think it still needs tweaking.

- The beta RP multiplier will continue to rise, and I may start to leave the bot on for several hours a day, particularly when I'm gone at work. To be honest it's been taking over my life lately, and I'd like to get it public fairly soon here. Will be focusing more on balancing ships, and extra non-criticals such as LVZ and sound in the days to come. If you'd like to help with LVZ or have a way to record decent sounds/music, drop me a line. Also, still taking a look at a variety of tilesets, though I have some problems with ones without much color or flavor ... if you have anything original in that department (rendered in 3D, maybe?) I would be interested to see.

[hak]

Distension Beta

The beta RP multiplier will continue to rise, and I may start to leave the bot on for several hours a day, particularly when I'm gone at work. To be honest it's been taking over my life lately, and I'd like to get it public fairly soon here.

I could keep an eye on the bot if you want, I seem to on a lot lately anyway, with nothing to do. Just for making sure it doesn't crash, and if it does, reboot it. Log possible errors, and so on.

Will be focusing more on balancing ships, and extra non-criticals such as LVZ and sound in the days to come. If you'd like to help with LVZ or have a way to record decent sounds/music, drop me a line.

Maybe you need to cut down a bit on the lvz? The arena can still make use of some lvz sound or graphic effects, but I'm afraid too much lvz will leave people confused of what's going on.
Also: is the progress bar working or not? It seems to work pretty fine for me, but I've been hearing a lot of complaints about it. And it doesn't seem to shut off after the bot is killed. Just so you know.

As always, good luck. Regards,

Hakkinen B)

[gdugwyler]

Maybe you need to cut down a bit on the lvz? The arena can still make use of some lvz sound or graphic effects, but I'm afraid too much lvz will leave people confused of what's going on.

What I've been generally hearing is: "there's too much text to read; can it be cut down?" It's certainly much easier to avoid LVZ for some aspects of the game, the kills in particular. If it's not considered too big a deal we can try keeping that sort of stuff as text-only. Where I want LVZ in is where a graphical display can prevent confusion and make play more intuitive -- the progress bar is a good example, so that people don't have to type !progress regularly. Another is the rearmament display so that people understand why they have not yet been prized, and the rank up display in case the level-up text is missed. I would still like to see a current rank display near the upgrades as well. Other than that, I'm not looking for a great deal more. Appropriate sounds/music may be in order for special situations, though. I'll have to break out Reason and the old Axiom25 MIDI controller in the next couple of weeks.

Also: is the progress bar working or not? It seems to work pretty fine for me, but I've been hearing a lot of complaints about it. And it doesn't seem to shut off after the bot is killed. Just so you know.

Can't figure out the problem people are having with the progress bar yet. It seems to work for me just fine. Fixed the problem with it not turning off, though.

[gdugwyler]

Progress bar should be fixed.

There is still a bug with !assist where it'll cause a player to be thrown back and forth between armies. If this happens to you, try doing !team and !terr to see if you're able to get any information. I added a special case for !team specifically to try to catch the problem. Anyone who provides information leading to the fixing of this bug will receive the usual RP bonus at public release, as well as a beta bonus of 100 RP per rank in the ship of your choice. (That is to say, use !assist as often as you can!)

[hak]

Distension Beta

What I've been generally hearing is: "there's too much text to read; can it be cut down?" It's certainly much easier to avoid LVZ for some aspects of the game, the kills in particular. If it's not considered too big a deal we can try keeping that sort of stuff as text-only. Where I want LVZ in is where a graphical display can prevent confusion and make play more intuitive -- the progress bar is a good example, so that people don't have to type !progress regularly. Another is the rearmament display so that people understand why they have not yet been prized, and the rank up display in case the level-up text is missed. I would still like to see a current rank display near the upgrades as well. Other than that, I'm not looking for a great deal more. Appropriate sounds/music may be in order for special situations, though. I'll have to break out Reason and the old Axiom25 MIDI controller in the next couple of weeks.

So what you're trying to say is that you won't be adding more new lvz, just replacing a lot of lines of text with some lvz? If so, this would seem fine to me. I just don't need any confusing sort of lvz, but if it gets rid of the text, go for it. (Even though the text-stream isn't that much per subject in my opinion, it's just that it spits out lines of text so often)
In short:

• Good: Lvz to replace lines of spam
• Bad: Random Lvz and sound effects like explosions confusing us.

But I think/hope this is what you meant?

[/font]Can't figure out the problem people are having with the progress bar yet. It seems to work for me just fine. Fixed the problem with it not turning off, though.

Having no problems at all with the progress bar, haven't heard any complaints eversince either. Must be all good now.

There is still a bug with !assist where it'll cause a player to be thrown back and forth between armies. If this happens to you, try doing !team and !terr to see if you're able to get any information. I added a special case for !team specifically to try to catch the problem. Anyone who provides information leading to the fixing of this bug will receive the usual RP bonus at public release, as well as a beta bonus of 100 RP per rank in the ship of your choice. (That is to say, use !assist as often as you can!)

I think I might have mistaken with the ID error. I've !defected and !enlisted just a few sessions ago, maybe the !team was between those times? I'm 100% sure I got that "You are not enlisted with an army, you do not have an ID"-something message, just not entirely sure when I got it. You made me doubt. :unsure: I'll be looking out to use !assist as often as I can whenever you start up the bot again.

Also, did you get the auto-shutdown to work? This could be a very useful feature, allowing the game to play when you have to go. Good luck on it.

Regards,

Hakkinen B)

[gdugwyler]

Yes, essentially the replacement of some of that which is in text into LVZ, or just simultaneous LVZ so as to make it more noticeable. If the text isn't a problem, I'll keep it essentially as-is.

The progress bar seems fairly decently fixed now (as compared to how it worked before), though Dank mentioned a problem where it sometimes shows blank spots in the bar. Will have to try to see this one first-hand. Also, players entering in the middle of the round may need an update sent to them regarding flag status.

There's one change I made to how !assist works that will prevent the symptom but not the cause of the strange switching problem. Guess we'll just have to see if it causes any more problems. As of lately I haven't seen much.

Also, auto-shutdown does now appear to work; as a result I'm going to try to up the number of tests to 2 a day, and make each significantly longer (on average +1 hour from when I log off). The afternoon one will hopefully be adverted as well. As things get more stable, this time will increase.

With the increasing focus on longer play, I'll need more feedback about ship balance and advancement rates. Are there ships that still aren't being played because of certain deficiencies, or that have trouble at certain levels? And how is the advancement rate, when you think it would be roughly half of the current rate? Think in terms of keeping play interesting, but at the same time long-lasting.

[hak]

Distension Beta

Auto-shutdown does now appear to work; as a result I'm going to try to up the number of tests to 2 a day, and make each significantly longer (on average +1 hour from when I log off). The afternoon one will hopefully be adverted as well. As things get more stable, this time will increase.

With the increasing focus on longer play, I'll need more feedback about ship balance and advancement rates. Are there ships that still aren't being played because of certain deficiencies, or that have trouble at certain levels? And how is the advancement rate, when you think it would be roughly half of the current rate? Think in terms of keeping play interesting, but at the same time long-lasting.

If you want, and if it's possible, I could start up the bot around 3-4pm GMT every day. There seem to be a hell lot of people on at that time who can't wait for Distension. I think you usually start it up at around 7 pm. So 3-4 hours would be a nice time gap getting a lot of different players in.

About ship balance. I've had a little discussion going on about ship balance for a few days now. Main participants being Epic Li (Leviathan and Weasel), Zeimonster (Leviathan and Terrier), Turban (Javelin and Lancaster), ph (Shark), Wayspace (Spider), Duel Pasta (Warbird).
Here are my conclusions:

Warbird - The warbird starts out with a high amount of energy and recharge. It has fast Level2 bullets early in the game, and gets mid-high thrusters early as well. Warbird is the ship to play if you're into stray&pray games, or when you're just a good sniper. It's one hit kills pay off, and the slow thrusters balance this out. With a few upgrades, and a smart pilot, this ship makes some good competition for spiders and lancasters. I think it's well balanced as it is right now. Warbird can be used best for solo play, but useful in a team too. It is easy to level.
Javelin - The bomb-lobber. Javelin has a high recharge rate early in the game, and low-mid energy. It also has low-mid thrusters and rotation, to make up for it's deadly proximity bombs. This ship can both bullet and bomb. Level2 bombs available later. Shrapnel becomes available mid-game. In short: Javelin is a high-damage low-energy bomber. It seems balanced now, but I'm not sure about Level2 bombs later in the game. Javelins might become a tad overpowered. This ship needs a team to live, but can wipe out an entire other. Easy to level.
Spider - Spider can upgrade energy and recharge very early in the game, so they can spray a fair deal of bullets. It can equip Level2 bullets later on in the game. A Spider performs best in a legion of other Spiders, but is a threat on itself as well. Seems balanced now, but I fear Level2 bullets might make them a bit strong and popular. This however could be a positive thing, spiders are loved in basing games. This ship is good for solo play, but best in team play. Very easy to level.
Leviathan - Super-fast, mid energy, mid-high recharge. Is a glider; does not have thrusters. Can equip Level2 bombs early at a high price, and equip low-damage super-fast ElectroMagneticPulse (EMP) bombs. These bombs do around 700-800 damage. Level2 bullets available mid-game, and Level3 bombs later on. Not many people use it so far, but it seems well-balanced, and is definetely a fun ship to play. The EMP-Bullet combo seems to work really well, and I guess a Level3 EMP bomb can stun an entire flagroom. It can be used for solo purposes as well as team purposes. Hardest to level, since it's easy to dodge the leviathan in early levels.
Epic Li: "Maybe we can upgrade the Leviathan early with a portal?". Sounds like a fine idea to me, it would definetely give the ship it's own character.
Terrier - Fast, agile and strong, what more do you want? I'd actually like to see some more energy into this ship. Since it is the only ship that has to survive in the relatively 'tiny' flagroom, I'm guessing it can use more than 1900 maximum energy. When Lancasters and Spiders get Level2 bullets, and Javelins get Level2 bombs, Terriers are definetely toast. Burst and portal recharge works really well, allowing a Terrier to kill some of his enemies rather than running from them. Besides it's energy, thrusters, top speed and weapon systems seem balanced well. This is definetely a team-only ship. It's easy-medium to level.
Weasel - I have not seen this ship in play yet. Oh wait, maybe I should turn my xradar on :grin:. The Weasel is once again the only ship able to equip a cloaking device, and stealth systems. It is also the smallest ship in play, one fourth of other ships. Weasel has very fast medium-damage bullets, which can be upgraded to Level2 later on. It can definetely use it's cloaking to sneak up and use it's high recharge, rocket and bullet speed to send an entire team back to spawn. The ship can not use upgrades until Level5, and most upgrades cost 2 RP. Weasel is easy in the start with around 4-5 bullets it can spray. Once it gets it's cloaking devices, it could well become an overpowered ship. Suggestion: turn down the Weasel bullet rate, or up it's costs. Good for solo and team play. Levelling: Easy.
Epic Li helped me with the weasel, since he thinks he's so smart with it.
Lancaster - Lancaster; a Spider dressed up like a beetle. Lancaster is the only ship that has to be unlocked in a special way in the actual game. It has medium energy, and medium-high recharge. They have low thrusters, but a high top speed. Their bullets seem to go mach 3. Lancasters shoot dual bullets, with a time-per-bullet similar to that of a spider. This ship gets Level2 bullets early, dealing out a fair amount of damage. The ship seems unbalanced to me. I think it's too offensive with it's high speed and high damage bullets. Maybe cut their bulleting speed down a little bit? The ship is good for solo and team-play. Lancaster seems to be the easiest ship to level, eight levels in half an hour isn't rare. This causes a huge amount of people to play the ship. I hope the ship maxes out early to promote other ships more.
Shark - A pure-defense ship (cough ph). Starting out with one repel, and mines as your only weapon, life as a shark bites. Don't worry though, it takes just a few levels for you to be able to use three repels, mines, a high-energy bullet and bombs. You can get a fair amount of energy early, and a mid recharge speed. Thrusters are low for the shark, but it's not like you need them any way. Shark is a very useful ship in teams, as it can fortify your flagroom with deadly mines. Once it has run out of repels (maximum is at least 5 repels, I'm not sure), it can use a bomb or bullets as a kamikaze. Shark is easy to level, an experienced offensive shark can get quite a few kills, and round wins do the trick for the rest of your RP-desire.

Overall: Ships seem balanced pretty well, though I fear for a terrier's life in mid-game. Lancaster and Spider Level2 bullets might be a bit too much, combined with their high energy. I'm not sure about the Javelin Level2 bombs either, but I suppose only time will tell.

Regards,

Hakkinen B)

[project dragon]

I like the way things are heading so far. : )
After playing distension for some time just now, I think the biggest issues for me were:
1) Rearming. It is quite laggy. Sometimes my ship will rearm itself right after I spawn, other times I would sit in the safe for at least 10-20 seconds before my ship got rearmed. If there was a more reliable way to have ships rearm right at respawn, it would be great.

2) ::!upginfo <#>. I find this command pretty much useless. there should be quicker ways to find out what each upgrade does. eg:

P project dr> !armory
P Distension> SPIDER ARMORY 0 upgrade points available
P Distension> # Name Curr / Max Points Rank Req.
P Distension> 1: Central Realigner (Rotation and turning speed) ( 2 / 10 ) 1 AVAIL!
P Distension> 2: Sling Drive (Thrust and acceleration) ( 1 / 10 ) 1 AVAIL!
P Distension> 3: Spacial Filtering (Top speed) ( 0 / 10 ) 1 AVAIL!

Something as simple as that would be very helpful when you have to need to upgrade quickly, or if you misspell upginfo many many times. : (

[PH]

Shark - A pure-defense ship (cough ph).

I laugh in the face of your pathetic paradigm.

[gdugwyler]

Thanks for putting together all of the info, HAK. Very useful. We'll have to see how things change as the ranks go up.

I modified the Lanc slightly, which was much needed when you reason it out. Consider how the ship was designed previously: it was one of two ships with L2 guns, the other being the Levi which was not seriously considered in any kind of basing. You can write off the Levi's slow L2 as not all that important, then, and Levi getting L2 in Distension early is a necessary step due to its movement capabilities. The Lanc, though, is a fighting ship. It was designed to fire L2 bullets, but originally when L2 bullets were still 1-hit kill. Then in order to give the ship a different feel, L2 bullets had their damage set down to about 1040. In Distension, L2 again does much higher damage -- even more devastating considering that this makes it a one hit kill for almost any ship under rank 20. Combine this ability with the Lanc's fast firing and low energy cost, and you have a recipe for ship imbalance.

I've made adjustments in one direction to keep the Lanc in the state of a more rapidly-firing ship. This may not be the best choice, but at the moment it's the easiest. This also means that L2 guns (and L3, if they will be made available) MUST be given much later in the game, as the ship is very close to a spider at this point.

The other option is giving it a much slower firing rate with higher energy cost, and making L2 bullets available at a somewhat low level. This is similar to the older version of the pub lanc. I may actually prefer to go this route, as it makes the ship more unique. It has its special abilities available early (particularly a very cool one that changes the ship's tactics quite a bit at level 26 or so) so it should still do well.

Present changes:

Its bullets fire very slightly more slowly, L2 bullets cost slightly more and now have a level requirement (15), and the bullet energy cost has been increased by 30%. This might change even by this afternoon.



Re: project dragon,

1) Rearming isn't really "laggy." This is a common misconception. Only a certain # players can be rearmed in a certain amount of time (this keeps the bot and server happy, for one). At the moment it's 4 per second. So if you have a lot of players dying at once, you may get left in the back of the queue and have to wait a while. Note that this problem originally caused Hyperspace to re-write their ENTIRE bot. This is our workaround. I could up this rate to 5 per second, or, probably more interestingly, just make two queues that run opposite of each other, and maybe run 3 per second. This would make the process faster and also not "penalize" your rearm speed if many players on the other team die.

Note that sharks and terrs can buy "Priority Rearmament" that puts them to the front of the line every time.

2) !upginfo stays. There will also be F1 help. I don't want it to say "Thrusters" or what have you. It's boring. In the end you'll get used to which number means what, and the special abilities will be interesting to figure out. In the future I will have it tell you what the thing you just bought upgrades -- this should help with confusion somewhat!

[gdugwyler]

- Armies now have their own rearmament queues, rearming 3 per second. This will result in generally much shorter rearm times, but longer if many of your teammates are killed at once.

- Lancaster has been converted to the old style, and has been given back the ability to get L2 guns early on for 6 points. I think this is preferable to making it wait forever for L2, and will also make it less of a spray/pray ship.

- !upginfo should be more helpful. Also, !upgrade and !scrap will now provide a description for all upgrades after buying/selling, including those strange ones further down the list.

[HateTheFake]

Dug

What will happen once the game is 24/7, 6 months later and u have level 50 ships. Wont it be extremely hard for a level 0 to rank or even kill someone. Will you help them by making a seperate arena for ships 0-15 or something? If i was new it may discourage me a bit if every person i shot wouldnt die and killed me 2 secs later.

[Toasty]

Dug

What will happen once the game is 24/7, 6 months later and u have level 50 ships. Wont it be extremely hard for a level 0 to rank or even kill someone. Will you help them by making a seperate arena for ships 0-15 or something? If i was new it may discourage me a bit if every person i shot wouldnt die and killed me 2 secs later.

probably reset after a few months

[gdugwyler]

Noteworthy changes went in today:

- Almost every maneuver-based upgrade (rotation, thrust/acceleration, and top speed) is now worth double what it was prior. This means that now every level of a maneuvering upgrade is equal to two levels, in most cases!

- Cost requirements have been increased for recharge and energy in later levels. This is to discourage every single player from just going all recharge and energy, though some can and should still try this strategy.

- Special equipment costs have been increased across the board. Lower-level upgrades will generally still cost only 1 point, but higher level upgrades will run you a bit more.

These changes have been made in an effort to encourage playing styles other than pure tank, and to give light speed-based upgrade plans a chance at destroying the behemoths. Also some costs were increased (special abilities) because the number of levels of the maneuvering upgrades was decreased, so you'll have more points to play with in the higher levels. And need somewhere to use them.


Re: high levels, the rank 0 players might kill the higher ups every so often, and when they do it should give them nearly a level -- this, I think, should be enough to keep them interested, if they can make that one kill. We'll have to see.

A reset might be in order on occasion ... probably done in seasons or phases. Who knows.