Distension Beta Suggestions/Bugfix thread

[2kill]

Since all others were to lazy to post it.. heres an interesting discussion bout sharks.

I'm not! I found out after you already started

thanks for doing all the hard work editing I was already done the whole chat lol

2kill

[Vergilius]

9:Mjollnir> yea
9:Mjollnir> so is 2v1 mostly
9:Mjollnir> how about limiting the amount of sharks on both teams to the same amount
9:Mjollnir> if the other team has only 1 the other can't have more than 1 either
9:Maddack+> no but
9:mango> i haven't played for 2 days
9:Major Crisis> so sharks shouldnt be limited.. but something like even it up.. like it has to be with all ships
9:mango> :<
9:Vergilius> meh mjoll, cant enter sharks then
9:Zeimonster> 1 more in the other team then
9:Vergilius> more like 'maximum 1 shark more than the other team'
9:Mjollnir> at least what zei said
9:Maddack+> it's bad to not let ppl play any ship they want
9:fluffz> i say leave sharks alone, there cant be enough of them. just split them equally
9:Major Crisis> well mjol if i cant shark i wont play distension, think it will be the same for the other top sharks..
9:Mjollnir> I don't think that will be a problem
9:X Machine> SHARK SUCKS
9:Zeimonster> says fluffz with his firebloom ;p
9:Mjollnir> esp if the zei rule is in effect
9:fluffz> so
9:2kill> give a RP bonus to the shark that assist to even the amount of sharks on the team
9:Zeimonster> u need sharks to rep ur bursts around
9:Major Crisis> so if we are all on the same team only 1-2 can play it
9:Major Crisis> since the other newbies wont play it
9:fluffz> its a symbiosis
9:Mjollnir> that's right
9:Mjollnir> the rest can assist
9:2kill> ya an assist just for the sharks so they can even the team
9:Major Crisis> yea that would be better
9:HFShadow> agreed
9:Major Crisis> but i think 6 mines are also too much
9:2kill> well there are four enteraces to base
9:2kill> instead of one as in pub
9:Maddack+> is it impossible to make the amount of mines you can lay upgradeable?
9:Major Crisis> so what? those mines are easily getting repped
9:2kill> I don't know but I like that idea
9:Mjollnir> if the team has a shark
9:Major Crisis> even a few rammer at the same time will pwn the mines..
9:Mjollnir> that is very hard since you are there repping and after you die you lay them again
9:Mjollnir> can't really help it if we have no sharks tho
9:Major Crisis> well laying mine isnt going that fast as you think
9:EpicLi <ZH>> no ppl, you cant upgrade number of mines
9:EpicLi <ZH>> that are certain things that are settings, and certain things that are upgrades
9:EpicLi <ZH>> energy, recharge, thruster, speed, bullets, bombs can be upgraded
9:EpicLi <ZH>> the rest can't be changed
9:EpicLi <ZH>> and in bombs, as i've seen someone saying this in the forum
9:EpicLi <ZH>> you can't change the damage from l2 or l3 whitout affecting l1
9:EpicLi <ZH>> because all bombs have the same damage, the difference is in the radius
9:Soja> ahh
9:mango> so nerf the radius
9:mango> lv 1 are useless already
9:mango> go nerf it some more
9:mango> lv 1 (emp)
9:EpicLi <ZH>> well, talk to dug about it
9:mango> it wouldn't be possible to introduce lv4s would it
9:EpicLi <ZH>> the damage is not that good, i just think it shouldnt be spammable
9:EpicLi <ZH>> you need flags/power balls for that
9:mango> have the bot warp a ball to you with a command
9:Mjollnir> can't warp then
9:mango> 'item gives a burst of upgraded weapons'
9:Mjollnir> rather a flag
9:mango> WELL SUCKS FOR YOU
9:EpicLi <ZH>> can't warp them
9:Mjollnir> !!
9:mango> u can warp balls wtf
9:EpicLi <ZH>> you can reset them
9:EpicLi <ZH>> and they will show up in the same place
9:mango> i thought you could warp them
9:EpicLi <ZH>> nope, what you can do is get in, take the ball, warp yourself and spec
9:EpicLi <ZH>> like in hockey
9:mango> can you warp flags? o-o
9:mango> flags would work but you can't really pick them up here
9:EpicLi <ZH>> i don't think so, but i dunno if you can have moveable flags and stuck flags at the same time
9:Soja> nice :P
9:mango> no
9:Mjollnir> too tired to post.. a lot of good stuff on the chat
mango> ds
9:Vergilius> mjoll on it
9:Vergilius> got the most of the shark discussion
9:Major Crisis> prob is people who shark think its fine and people who doesnt are like they are too important
9:2kill> see I play all ships all my ships are 19 or more and I think the sharks an ok ship
9:Mjollnir> it is pretty close to ok
9:Mjollnir> would be totally fine if the teams always had the same amount of sharks
9:Major Crisis> i think it should also happen with the others ships then
9:Mjollnir> maybe not all of them
9:Mjollnir> with terrs sure
9:Major Crisis> spids also

[Aquatiq]

I don't think there's a scrap etiquette, if dug says I shouldn't be doing that then I'll stop. But right now nothing's stopping anyone from macroing scraps/upgrades.

[AcidBomber]

I don't think there's a scrap etiquette, if dug says I shouldn't be doing that then I'll stop. But right now nothing's stopping anyone from macroing scraps/upgrades.

Dug mentioned that will be changed (Possibly with some penalty?) when it is released. :P

[2kill]

Dug mentioned that will be changed (Possibly with some penalty?) when it is released. :P

ya for the first 15% to the next rank you are allowed unlimited scraps then after 15% you loss all your rp for scraping.

[gdugwyler]

Changes:

• For longer battles (30min+), losers now receive a little less than 20% of the bonus the winners receive.
• Reward for winning increased slightly.
• Added small scrap/upgrade prevention. It can be circumvented, but not without a bit of hassle. Aqua, the main reason you're able to do it with any consistency is because you're staff, and staff are exempt from the spam message limiter -- I've modified this so that probably sometime next week that won't be an issue. Scrapping and then upgrading to prize/deprize isn't considered abuse, really, but it's a little rough on the bot. When scrap is no longer free (public) I don't think we'll see much of this anyway, so no big deal. If it becomes a problem I can make scrapping only available in the rearming areas -- that would actually make a good bit of sense anyway, considering it would be impossible for someone to install something on your ship midair.
• Max points you can earn from a kill or round end is now the amount required to rank up. A lot of games with levels/XP use this technique, and I think it's a good idea for the low levels attacking higher ups.
• Base terr bonus now is modified heavily by rank. Min amount of time in base required to earn it is still 50%, but if you're there 75% of the time or more, you earn 1.5x the normal percentage bonus; if you're there 100% of the time you earn 2x. The max bonus to regular PS is 10% -- a level 70+ terr staying in base 100% of the time. Add in +4% for the default 40+ level "being a terr" profitsharing amount and 1% per level of profitsharing, for a max of 19% profitsharing possible with the 100% in base rank 70+ bonus.

Re: long log post, does that boil down to a suggestion? I guess I don't see too many sharks anyhow. Opinions on this?

[2kill]

Re: long log post, does that boil down to a suggestion? I guess I don't see too many sharks anyhow. Opinions on this?

9:2kill> give a RP bonus to the shark that assist to even the amount of sharks on the team
9:Zeimonster> u need sharks to rep ur bursts around
9:Major Crisis> so if we are all on the same team only 1-2 can play it
9:Major Crisis> since the other newbies wont play it
9:fluffz> its a symbiosis
9:Mjollnir> that's right
9:Mjollnir> the rest can assist
9:2kill> ya an assist just for the sharks so they can even the team
9:Major Crisis> yea that would be better
9:HFShadow> agreed

well I like this idea (maybe cause I thought of it )

[meddi]

If shark specific !assist existed it could unbalance the teams, ultimately pushing for a "trade". I don't see this as a bad thing.

Two teams, balanced, and one has two high rank sharks where the other has no sharks. One shark leaves to assist the other army, and the team he joins gets an "!assist as a result...I guess? Some similar rank fighting ship could head over to the shark's original army to maintain balance.

I dunno, but I do see shark balance as a problem - primarily when one team has multiple sharks and the other has none.

[DankNuggets]

TK: why dont we(dug) create a system similar to modern games there the TKed person can choose how to punish the TKer? i am thinking of the following options the victim could have:

-1..forgive
-2..emp
-3..kill
-4..ngative rp
-5..warp

RP: getting 10 rp from newbs while i guess they get 200 indicates i could get a 1:20 ratio. This is nowere close to reality and i consider this unfair. the process of getting rp is too harsh imho. i know dug already said there will be some changes but deviding income by 4 in the final is much, too much?

I've been saying this over, and over, and over, and over

but mainly for public arenas i dont' think tks are too much of a problem right now

[Fluffz]

Re: long log post, does that boil down to a suggestion? I guess I don't see too many sharks anyhow. Opinions on this?

it describes the biggest problem of distension as it is today - imbalanced fixed frequencies - which is destroying an otherwise great game. Last test on my freq there were 4 javs and no shark fighting vs 2 sharks and 2 spiders. Personally it pissed me off, i just quit, i didnt switch to shark, i didnt want to shark, it is the same as in pub.

The solution: do the power check not only per freq but per freq+ship. this means if freq 1 had 1 jav and freq 0 has none there will be a RP bonus for javing (same with any ship of course) for freq 0 like !assist works today for frequencies. if you switch to shark and freq 1 has more shark rp points than freq 0 than you are put in for freq 0 automatically.

The alternative: include the basing game winning record in the power check. this means for every of each freq´s wins it counts as +5% rp in the !assist check in the next game. this way assist works in favour of the losers. what i dont like in this idea is that you get a bonus and support for sucking.

a 2nd alternative would be to excluse shark and terr from the current freq power check and have those chips checked for balance on their own. so there would be 3 power checks for !assist, one for jav,wb,spid,lanc,levi,x, one for shark and one for terr. still like my first idea best tho

[Mjollnir]

The Shark issue:

- The first step to solving the problem could be restricting the amount of sharks per team so that the other team can't have more than one extra shark compared to the other. We could also restrict the total amount of sharks allowed at any time depending on the amount of people playing.

- The restriction could be 2 sharks / team in small games and 4 in bigger ones or something like that. Now with the first rule in place the amount of sharks can only be 0vs1, 1vs2, 2vs3 or 3vs4 at worst.

- Other idea: If the other team has less sharks than your team and you switch to a shark, you would be force assisted to the other team as a shark. This could get complicated though since the team balances need to be checked (like meddi mentioned) and the assisting shark might change ships if some kind of a restriction isn't put in place about that.

- The same kind of rules and restrictions could be used with Terriers (and potentially with other ships to a lesser degree) since they are equally important in deciding the winner of the matches.

The Terrier issue:

Some people have said they are unhappy with the current Terrier. It seems to be because they want to fight too and since the Terrier isn't as powerful at getting kills anymore they get bored. I don't think adding more bursts will solve this problem but some kind of ability or change in the Terrier could be put in place. Maybe some kind of a costly new ability that makes them able to make a fighter build or maybe you could change the multifire somehow to make it powerful but very costly in UPs. None of the terrs seem to use multifire currently anyway. That's all I can think of for now.

[project dragon]

The solution: do the power check not only per freq but per freq+ship. this means if freq 1 had 1 jav and freq 0 has none there will be a RP bonus for javing (same with any ship of course) for freq 0 like !assist works today for frequencies. if you switch to shark and freq 1 has more shark rp points than freq 0 than you are put in for freq 0 automatically.

This would be easy to abuse.

If there was an rp bonus just for switching to another ship, I'd switch, shoot a few times in my lower powered ship, then switch back to whatever I was playing (unless you needed a terr of shark :P )

I just think that could be exploited pretty easily.

Assisting the other freq works better because you get to keep the ship you are better in (noone wants to switch to their lvl 2 jav when they have a lvl 27 spider, would they?)

I guess one thing that you could do that just came into my head is some sort of !trade command. If one team has 2 high level sharks, and the other has 3 high level javs, one team could !trade <shark name>:<jav name>, and the command would only be sent to the other team if enough people from the one freq request it.

Just an idea.

[Fluffz]

than price the !assist bonus after 15 minutes of playing.

because the current system isnt abuse save either. lets say you have 2 ppl, the first one does !assist in an high level ship, switches to a low level ship. the second does !assist, 1st switches back, making the freq overpowered. repeat from step one. could be you need 3 ppl.

speaking of it, who wants to be my partner?

[meddi]

I don't think there should be any form of ship-count balancing between arbitrary fighting ships. If one team has 4 javs, and the other has none, oh well. However, for sharks and terrs some of the aforementioned solutions - or whatever else people come up with - should be considered.

[DankNuggets]

The Shark issue:

The Terrier issue:

Some people have said they are unhappy with the current Terrier. It seems to be because they want to fight too and since the Terrier isn't as powerful at getting kills anymore they get bored. I don't think adding more bursts will solve this problem but some kind of ability or change in the Terrier could be put in place. Maybe some kind of a costly new ability that makes them able to make a fighter build or maybe you could change the multifire somehow to make it powerful but very costly in UPs. None of the terrs seem to use multifire currently anyway. That's all I can think of for now.

I have no problems killing even the highest level spiders and wbs with my less than mediocre terrier. They all have almost no energy from storming the fr and aren't expecting to get shot by the terrier. The real issue is that if you are the terrier, you are not supposed to die. If you're fighting, you will eventually die and piss your team off. It isn't that the terrier is unbalanced, it's that the idea of the terrier is less a ship to fly around in and more of a portal for others to get into base.