Distension Beta Suggestions/Bugfix thread

[Bobyz]

The only way to get people to play terr is to have them suffer countless more battle losses before finally realizing instead of screaming at teammates to change to terr, they should just do it themselves.

But see, when this goes pub, there will be more new people coming everyday. Getting them to play a needed ship when they have nothing else better won't be too difficult.

[DankNuggets]

The only way to get people to play terr is to have them suffer countless more battle losses before finally realizing instead of screaming at teammates to change to terr, they should just do it themselves.

this is why i love my team: one day no one terrs, the next we have a team of 10 pp, 4-5 of whom are terrs

people who want to get really high ranks in assualt ships don't care too much about winning a round, just about having flags to mulitply their RP. people who are playing in support ships do really care about that end of the round bonus. Therefore, if there aren't many ppl who want to play support ships, they won't care that they keep losing. Solution? !assist (team that cares about winning) if you like playing support ships and your team won't help u out

what ship is considered support besides terr/shark? is it the weasel?

[Fluffz]

sidewing bots are already there and finished, nothing to implement there. They seem very potent of doing many things and would give some nice dist skills. All you would have to do is go over to eg staff and borrow one. u can than call their features from your bot.

a modernized version of Continuum

without knowing i still think approaching priitk with a plan, a team and maybe even money would be the best way to modernize this game. Hell if there is a professional team behind it he might even help. Its his baby and he made all of this and i would hate to see it die at some point, but i can totaly understand he doesnt give the source to random internet people. On the other hand if we would approach him on a professional level this might change things. Im talking about contracts here and rl names, like its done in the real world every day. Like i do in the real world every day.

there are countless of priojects out there that try to replace continuum at some day but honestly i cant see it happen. To me it is just a waste of resources. Non of them has a bigger plan or a clue WHAT to improve.

This is not something a single person can do imho, implementing every aspect of ss with backward compartible and adding features like 3d seems impossible to me. Just look at the trouble dist gives you. Even priitk probably didnt write the whole continuum code, i would assume he used some reengineered ss code.

[Vergilius]

what ship is considered support besides terr/shark? is it the weasel?

Weasel is support ship, yes (at least last time i checked, 2 weeks ago), probably because of its flag-stealing abilitities in a calm fr.

Dunno if there are more, tho

[roxxkatt]

also how bout having an a annual ship reset like every 3 months to keep things balanced a bit for newer players?

NO

Ops levelling bug: Mjoll ranked up his Ops past rank 0 due to a bug. What was the bug, and why wasn't it reported?

MY GUESS: end round bonus, before the 25% cap. i tested this, and ops does earn end round bonus.

Levi: it'll remain assault for now.

why not add it as support and remove it from profit sharing?


also, how often should team resets occur?
manually by a mod? or regularly? how often?

[Bobyz]

rather than just having only 2 teams going at it, what about allowing private freqs?

[DankNuggets]

i think that might ruin the !assist part of the game, but it would be interesting to see a freelance team or something

[Bobyz]

Only bad thing i can see with that is all the super duper upgraded ships getting together on a freq and pwning the shit outta everyone else. (happens regularly in HS)

[roxxkatt]

rather than just having only 2 teams going at it, what about allowing private freqs?

NO


....oh, so you DID notice that it killed HS? good.

[gdugwyler]

without knowing i still think approaching priitk with a plan, a team and maybe even money would be the best way to modernize this game. Hell if there is a professional team behind it he might even help. Its his baby and he made all of this and i would hate to see it die at some point, but i can totaly understand he doesnt give the source to random internet people. On the other hand if we would approach him on a professional level this might change things. Im talking about contracts here and rl names, like its done in the real world every day. Like i do in the real world every day.

there are countless of priojects out there that try to replace continuum at some day but honestly i cant see it happen. To me it is just a waste of resources. Non of them has a bigger plan or a clue WHAT to improve.

This is not something a single person can do imho, implementing every aspect of ss with backward compartible and adding features like 3d seems impossible to me. Just look at the trouble dist gives you. Even priitk probably didnt write the whole continuum code, i would assume he used some reengineered ss code.

I was by no means offering what most projects of this nature attempt: essentially becoming Subspace Plus, with improved graphics and a more robust protocol, and maybe even (BIZARRELY) backwards compatibility. Let me be clear: I don't hold this game in any kind of reverence. I'm actually pretty much bored with it as it is, to be honest. It does a lot of things awkwardly and poorly, things that would never be done today; it does others very nicely. The bottom line is that it has a good playing style -- one that's instantly playable for anyone, yet takes time to master -- and this playing style is not common today. In short there's something of worth here that should be salvaged.

Asking PriitK for help is a dead-end. He's not going to give up the code, and further, he shouldn't need to. If a team was assembled that was truly serious about reinventing SS (in the form of SS+ as described above), they would start from scratch, evaluating what is good about the game and what needs to be improved... not taking the existing code and adding 3D handling to it or the like. The code really isn't worth salvaging at this point, except as a reference. There's nothing special about it as compared to other games. And while what Priit did took a serious effort and is commendable, it was certainly not miraculous. He figured out how the network protocol worked, and then implemented a new client based on that protocol, so that the client could implement anti-cheating measures, as well as some minor improvements. Someone could do the exact same thing that he did if they wanted to essentially obtain his code "without asking."

Again, I think you've misunderstood what I'm talking about, which is starting with a solid and complete 3D engine with implemented netcode, a model format and a map system, and simply customizing it to a specific style of play. Not much more is needed. This can easily be done by one person (though the modelling and such may require help). Frequently it's only a single person that works on the code for such a project. And as far as the trouble that Distension gives me, it's largely due to the limitations of being a client emulator, and not part of the server. Just look at this JumpSpace problem: it's having trouble just because it's not able to get the position of the player. In any other game this would be absolutely laughable, as the code for the game would be on the server, not a client emulator, and being able to get the player position would be one of the most important and rudimentary abilities. Or -- recall when the bot was recycling the server and getting kicked for sending too many packets at once? This is also ridiculous. The code for any game in SS should be on the server, and not be forced to deal with limitations of a client. Some say this can be remedied by using ASSS, but unless all servers are ASSS, this bizarre and frustrating problem still exists somewhere, and it's a complete mockery of modern technology. All that the present incarnation of Subspace is founded on is a giant hack: hacked client to get around licensing issues, hacked bots to get around inability to run code from the server, hacked and hex-edited server to push through a small number of tediously-implemented updates. There's nothing great or golden about it at all. We just live with it because we like the game enough to put up with enormous amounts of bullshit. I would like to dispense with the bullshit, and be inspired by Subspace but not be bound by its apparently sacred, highly-dysfunctional featureset. Priit was forced to change almost nothing from SS when he wrote the new client, due to being unable to modify the server. If you have the option of complete control over the server, why suffer under the esoteric rule of a game long past its time? Its interface doesn't even have mouse support!

[Fluffz]

duno IF lagout is supposed to work but here is my story.

Welcome to Distension BETA. PM !enlist to the bot to start, or !return (or ~) if you've already enlisted.
Fluffz> !return
Distension> Ensign FLUFFZ authorized as a pilot of INTERGALACTIC PLANETARY, INC.. Returning you to HQ.
Fluffz> !lagout
Distension> Error getting back in with that ship! Please contact a mod.

here i entered manually and was placed on the wrong freq

Fluffz> !assist 1
Distension> You aren't assisting any army presently. Use !assist armyID# to assist an army in need.
Fluffz> !return
Distension> You are currently docked at INTERGALACTIC PLANETARY, INC. HQ. You may pilot a ship at any time by hitting ESC + #. You may !leave to record all data and stop the battle timer.

i entered again, this time on my freq

Distension> HQ awards you 1281RP for the victory (8% participation)

If a team was assembled that was truly serious about reinventing SS (in the form of SS+ as described above), they would start from scratch, evaluating what is good about the game and what needs to be improved... not taking the existing code and adding 3D handling to it or the like. The code really isn't worth salvaging at this point, except as a reference.

Im less interested in a new game based on salvaged old ideas than on improving on the status quo which without priitk and others cant be done in a way that doesnt split the community. Without doubt someone could sit down and write a spaceship game but would that still be subspace?

Subspace is not only the code. Imho to suceed you need to shut down the old version, do you think that would work with shining new code, a brand new sql playerbase, and no billing? You would have to convince a lot of bureaucrats there and create a lot of infrastructure. Also from the pure coding part itself, imagine reengineering repels without the code, that must be a pain in the ass. But enough of that from my side, this is a different story and if i dont step up myself i could as good as shut up.

[Bobyz]

It is in my opinion the losing team deserves more of a bonus at the end of each round. After intesely fighting for both bases for 35 mins, opposing team wins and gets near 16,000 RP, losing team gets around 362 RP, for full participation. Seeing as the game lasted 35 mins, you can assume each team had about an equal skill level, yet the end of round winnings do not reflect that.

[Viruk]

Went back to spider recently. I am still able to easily rack up lots of kills despite being under lvl 20. Having now tested them all, it seems easily the most powerful of the 3 fighters at low-mid level. I think this is partly because so much of the fighting involves attaching into a battle where it is a great advantage if you can fire when at low energies or mop up multiple weakened enemies. Advantages like this translate directly into killing which means more RP.

Spiders do not seem weak in general combat either. Can anyone see any major weakness that makes them bad in other common situations? Something equivalent to the warbird's lesser firepower or the lanc's sluggishness? If not then perhaps a little tweaking would be a good idea.

I loved the RP bonus added to the weasel for terrkills. Over 400RP for killing high level base terr and ending streak! Once I got multifire in my weasel it really made a big difference to its killing power too. Now definitely seems to be a contender even if this is still more for special abilities rather than levelling or killing power. Sadly, I never noticed any vengeful kill bonuses in the very short time I played it since this was introduced.

I still think levs should have a support bonus. Although they can certainly get kills they cannot do so as effectively as most other ships. Their tanking and EMPing strengths do not directly translate into killing power.

As far as developing this game on a new platform is concerned: By all means give it a go but not until this game is finished here please! Even if it does work technically better to write it in something else or somewhere else you might still have problems getting people to move away from the old base.

P.S. If you can; please fix !lagout or fix returning or make it so end of round bonuses are divided between all the ships you used by % of game time spent in them. I hate lost participation bonus when my connection dies or the game chokes (probably due to bad spike or something) even if I use the same ship and use !lagout when I return.

[2kill]

Future:

• In case anyone is interested, I've been looking into using the Source SDK to mod Half-Life 2. It's really not too hard from the look of it. VC++ has a pretty barebones interface for walking through code, so it's making it difficult to explore as fast as I would like, but a lot of it is pretty straightforward. While it would hardly be a replacement for Subspace, a modernized version of Continuum using the Source engine appears quite possible. It would mean the playing style would be a bit more particular -- no ?go for example for a variety of games -- but still holds some interesting possibilities, to at the very least keep top-down spaceship-style gaming alive in the modern age. One nice thing about trying it as a mod is that 95% of the code is already written ... including reasonably-reliable netcode, the ability to implement 3D models without difficulty, etc., etc... Not saying it will ever necessarily blossom into anything, but I'm looking into the possibility at the very least.

Well unfortunately I have never played half-life 2 (will have to go out and get it) or any of its mod but I hear it’s a great game with the ability to make almost anything happen in the mods. and my only concern is that people would most likely have to buy the game to play the mod which would deter some of them (most likely the people who are the most annoying in the game right now so it could be a bonus). To fluffz: if this mod ever really got off the ground and coded and the money cost dealt with then you could just give the mod as the next update of continuum, just without a crossover period like with the versions before.

[Mjollnir]

Changes:

...

• Ops levelling bug: Mjoll ranked up his Ops past rank 0 due to a bug. What was the bug, and why wasn't it reported?
• Weasel vengeful bastard assist bonus: have any Weasels ever received an RP bonus for Vengeful Bastard firing on someone that kills them, and someone then killing the person immediately after? Would like to know if this is working. Note that it shouldn't (at least from now on) display if kill messages are disabled.
• Terrs: it's hard to get people to play them, yet they have too many ports? Hard to balance there. They were given more ports (and fewer bursts) so that they could have more leeway with the ports, using them more liberally -- for example, to make kills. If anyone has suggestions on ways to get people to play Shark or Terr, would be good to hear. I don't think making them level faster will necessarily do it.

• I did report the bug. I leveled my ops up by first being ops and then manually entering as a ship and killing people. That way I would get ops RP by killing. It is fixed now though.
• I have got the vengeful bastard assist a few times but it seems it happens very rarely. I haven't used vengeful bastard that much though so maybe Vergilius or someone can chime in with more info?
• I think that Terrs get way too many portals. They basically have unlimited portals very early on. That means it's almost impossible to hunt a Terr down with a Weasel. I am having a lot of trouble killing even low level Terrs (Bobyz can confirm this) with my lvl 50 Weasel. There is no reason to buy blue bullets either since they can port away every time. I am sure it's not easy with other ships either and the Terrier must be fun to play so something has to be done. Maybe give them even more energy or whatever?

I have brought up some of this before but here goes:

#1:
The Terriers are getting a lot of escape pods. It is quite frustrating to have someone spawn with bursts, at a different spot than where they died and even being invisible at first, over and over again. Maybe they shouldn't be able to use an escape pod more than once / death. Also, having bursts after respawning is not good and it just makes the Terriers suicide to get more burst-death-respawn-burst-kills. If the ability is made weaker this way it could possibly be cheaper to get.

#2:
Another issue I mentioned before is the new bomb radius and damage. I liked the old way a lot better. Nowadays the Jav red bomb has basically no radius and the yellow isn't that great either. The only good thing that has come out of it is less TKing but it really made Javs a lot weaker and they are probably too weak again. I also think some Levis didn't like the change either (roxxxkat(?) / cheese?) and I am sure all the Javs hate it.

#3:
Viruk said in another post that Spiders are overpowered. I tend to agree and I have talked about this over and over again. Zeimonster also thinks this way and I am sure a lot more people do as well. I do not know exactly what to change but something should probably be done.

#4:
Dug asked to come up with solutions to the weak Weasel situation. This is a tough one. I think one of the biggest problems is how hard it is to kill Terrs now that they have so many portals. It is almost impossible, as long as the Terrier uses portals. And of course the nrg / chg upgrades could be cheaper like has been discussed and decided before. Currently I feel I am not going to be a Weasel when this goes public. It is quite weak and not very fun to play as a result. Maybe that's partly because I am such a high level that leveling is very slow but who knows. One more thing: the bricks seem a little weak too. Maybe they should be a little longer or something. They cost 39 UPs after all.

#5:
Most of the other ships seem almost okay. The Lanc is now really strong with a huge leech % and the improved bomb. Warbirds seem okay and are very annoying to play against because of the lag factor but I guess that's how they are meant to be. The Shark isn't a very popular ship but it gets VERY (almost too?) strong later on (just watch Meddi with cloak, yellow mines/bombs and a zillion reps). Maybe getting a lot of reps should cost a lot just like the Terr bursts but they could get some other fun feature to play with?