Something that's been missing a while in our 'dying zone'

[Capital Knockers]

Alright, all this TW is dying talk makes me want to speak my mind. People are right, it is, and I've always said the same things. Always had the same reasoning. It's simple, newbies come, they play, they get shit on and leave. There is no stepping stone into the elim/base/baseelim or twd/twl arenas. Want to know why?

Where are all the farm teams or whatever the hell they're called? No vets (regardless of how much they all whine) take the time to actually grab new players and TEACH them anything anymore. No one takes the time to help newer players get a foot in the door community-wise. THATS the big problem. This game is far from just a game, it's a community with years and years of history. There's no way newbies are going to take the time and effort (and the bullshit they have to put up with) to get anywhere in this zone on their own.

Whatever happend to squads like Dependency, we used to have Dep Co-op Div. I was on it almost a year before i got on Dependency. Nessy just picked me up in a pub, no questions asked. He'd take me to #duel, teach me to bounce of rocks, not to fly in a straight line, simple shit that takes a half hour! Just from that, I gained knowledge, and felt like I actually had a place in the game - so I kept playing. Other players, DieWing, Commodore Pickle - the old school vets (the cool ones) all did the same thing.

Bottom line is this, and will always be this. It's the arrogance and laziness of the veterans in this game that will kill it. You want to do something about TW - go train a newbie and get him into the fucking game. If you can't do something as simple as that - you've got no right to bitch so shut the hell up.

Glad I got that off my chest

[DJSlayer]

1st!

Anyway dude have you seen the maturity of the majority of the community these days? I don't know if we have any vets left prepared to do that, yet alone enough to keep TW alive.

I brought enough newbs in when I capt'd Brainwave, gave players a squad where they felt welcome and could learn at the same time, without vets giving em shit :P Sadly I don't have the energy to do that anymore, not enough time no more!

Anyway prepare to get bashed for implying vets nowadays aren't cool, however true it is in the majority of cases :P

[Capital Knockers]

1st!

Anyway dude have you seen the maturity of the majority of the community these days? I don't know if we have any vets left prepared to do that, yet alone enough to keep TW alive.

I brought enough newbs in when I capt'd Brainwave, gave players a squad where they felt welcome and could learn at the same time, without vets giving em shit :P Sadly I don't have the energy to do that anymore, not enough time no more!

Anyway prepare to get bashed for implying vets nowadays aren't cool, however true it is in the majority of cases :P

That is a good point, it can be frustrating, but I know I was alot more annoying when I first started playing too. It's something people have to put up with, or we loose this game. Up to us really.

As for the bashing, let it begin, would only strengthen my points. I'm not saying people should go out and start entirely new squads just for newbies either, I'm saying we should let twl squads form their own farm teams. So entire squads of newbies can be run and trained by experienced players, from a stable twl/twd squad environment.

Edit- It also gives them a DIRECT stepping stone into the community and higher levels of play.

[Ephemeral]

A sweeping generalization is never a good thing to make, it can not be said that it is the ‘vets’ fault anymore than it can be said that it is the noobs fault. It is tempting to say that the immature people are at fault, since they seem to be the ones who mouth off more than anyone else, but this is a generalization too. The ladies players might want to say that most of TW’s problems are because of males. It is not the Americans fault, it is not the Euros fault. It is not staffs fault, or the players fault. Etc. Etc.

There is no value it trying to make a case that TW’s shrinking population is due to one group of another. Fault lies with all of us. Players, staff, men, women, new, old, Jew, Christian, black, white, everyone.

Continuous improvement is a subject that is well defined in the Quality world. It is easy to apply the approaches and solutions that have been proven to work. Goals and objectives should be defined and communicated, these should include base-line metrics. An example being, ‘TW currently has an average of XXX different players online per day and wishes to increase this 10% by 12/01/08’. Once this is in place, potential solutions should be indentified including a method of measuring (metric) that can be attributed to the tested solution. An example might be, ‘Organized 2 volunteers to specifically be online and in the first two pub arenas to support anyone looking for help understanding the game and it’s strategies. Metric will be to measure and analyze the average number of XXX different players online per day over a 2 month period.’

Of course, we can not be changing many things at one time or the ability to measure and understand the change becomes quite difficult. But concentrating on improvement as opposed to finger point generalizations is surely a better way to address the declining population.

[Capital Knockers]

A sweeping generalization is never a good thing to make, it can not be said that it is the ‘vets’ fault anymore than it can be said that it is the noobs fault. It is tempting to say that the immature people are at fault, since they seem to be the ones who mouth off more than anyone else, but this is a generalization too. The ladies players might want to say that most of TW’s problems are because of males. It is not the Americans fault, it is not the Euros fault. It is not staffs fault, or the players fault. Etc. Etc.

There is no value it trying to make a case that TW’s shrinking population is due to one group of another. Fault lies with all of us. Players, staff, men, women, new, old, Jew, Christian, black, white, everyone.

Continuous improvement is a subject that is well defined in the Quality world. It is easy to apply the approaches and solutions that have been proven to work. Goals and objectives should be defined and communicated, these should include base-line metrics. An example being, ‘TW currently has an average of XXX different players online per day and wishes to increase this 10% by 12/01/08’. Once this is in place, potential solutions should be indentified including a method of measuring (metric) that can be attributed to the tested solution. An example might be, ‘Organized 2 volunteers to specifically be online and in the first two pub arenas to support anyone looking for help understanding the game and it’s strategies. Metric will be to measure and analyze the average number of XXX different players online per day over a 2 month period.’

Of course, we can not be changing many things at one time or the ability to measure and understand the change becomes quite difficult. But concentrating on improvement as opposed to finger point generalizations is surely a better way to address the declining population.

I wasn't trying to make a single sweeping generalization Eph, though it may of come off that way. I was making an actual suggestion. Why can't twl squads, squads that have been around a long time - The Disos, the Spastics, etc, have farm teams? I don't know if rules were put in place against it, but alot of people seem to agree, that the lack of stepping stones into higher levels of play (and the community itself) are what's keeping newer players from establishing themselves in this game.

I know it leaves alot of open spaces for double-squadding type issues, but desperate times call for desperate measures. Have the captains and assts allowed second registered twd users on their farm teams. Have these players go into the pubs and such, grab newbies, throw them on the farm teams, and run their squads. That way the newbies have a strong, experienced squad structure. Strong leadership, experience, and just a general backbone. Not to mention they'd have something to work towards - a chance to be on Spastic, Disoblige, Penetrate - whatever squad's farm team they may of joined. This would create the direct stepping stone into both community and higher level of play we're missing. Sure it might be difficult to manage, might require some work, time and patience to make happen - but what else is happening and working?

EDIT- It also balances out the attention and work required of the older players in the game. Gives the veterans a chance to help the newer players in an organized and effective fashion - rather than just randomly grabbing some newbie and training him in a private arena. Newbies would also get a chance to see what it's like being on a squad thats run correctly, rather than being on 5 newb squads that each die in a week.

[megaman89]

Dice Jrs. being made after TWL, signup now. Being led by a2m/myself and an unknown captain

[Money]

TW ISNT DYING, HAVENT U PLAYED #DISTENSION? f

[Edify]

GiantTiger?

[Capital Knockers]

Dice Jrs. being made after TWL, signup now. Being led by a2m/myself and an unknown captain

I can't tell if your serious or not, but if you did take it seriously, being a squad thats won several twl titles - I'm sure you'd get quite the roster of newbs after a while. Keep it alive long enough and I'd be willing to bet you'd make some newbies into twl all stars.

[megaman89]

I can't tell if your serious or not, but if you did take it seriously, being a squad thats won several twl titles - I'm sure you'd get quite the roster of newbs after a while. Keep it alive long enough and I'd be willing to bet you'd make some newbies into twl all stars.

yeah I'm serious ask a2m, we are already scouting.

already making newbies into allstars, check zidane out

[death row]

Dice Jrs. being made after TWL, signup now. Being led by a2m/myself and an unknown captain

LOL DICE JR's. =o)~

[death row]

In all seriousness, it's not up to the vets to teach newbies. Who wants to take the time and do that? When I started, I didn't expect special treatment. You had to stick it out in elim and just fight and improve your skill over the years. Now, when I started, there wasn't a elim usage cap. So it was cool playing that right away. I've actually seen a few people come into elim, ask why they can't play and then exit the arena. Now what if there was no "usage" rule, and they actually enjoyed playing elim and stuck around? That adds new players.

Again, that's just one theory. I'm sure some won't agree with it, and I don't mind. But IMO, that's one thing that would be better off gone. Why have a usage limit when you only see like 3 people in elim(s) these days, anyway. Let anyone or everyone in.

[Chao.]

In all seriousness, it's not up to the vets to teach newbies. Who wants to take the time and do that? When I started, I didn't expect special treatment. You had to stick it out in elim and just fight and improve your skill over the years. Now, when I started, there wasn't a elim usage cap. So it was cool playing that right away. I've actually seen a few people come into elim, ask why they can't play and then exit the arena. Now what if there was no "usage" rule, and they actually enjoyed playing elim and stuck around? That adds new players.

Again, that's just one theory. I'm sure some won't agree with it, and I don't mind. But IMO, that's one thing that would be better off gone. Why have a usage limit when you only see like 3 people in elim(s) these days, anyway. Let anyone or everyone in.

I don't see why anyone would or should put up with the enormous amount of shit tossed their way when they first start playing when they have so many other online games (many with much more people) that they can just go play without all the trouble of learning the ropes. They can just do something else (and probably will).

[Exalt]

In all seriousness, it's not up to the vets to teach newbies. Who wants to take the time and do that? When I started, I didn't expect special treatment. You had to stick it out in elim and just fight and improve your skill over the years. Now, when I started, there wasn't a elim usage cap. So it was cool playing that right away. I've actually seen a few people come into elim, ask why they can't play and then exit the arena. Now what if there was no "usage" rule, and they actually enjoyed playing elim and stuck around? That adds new players.

Again, that's just one theory. I'm sure some won't agree with it, and I don't mind. But IMO, that's one thing that would be better off gone. Why have a usage limit when you only see like 3 people in elim(s) these days, anyway. Let anyone or everyone in.

usage limits were fine when there was like 50 people playing elim at all times of the day, now your lucky to get 5, so yeah I agree with drow on this one

and honestly when I was new, the only real way to get better individually in a wb or jav was to play elim, and I still play elim to this day, really only arena besides wbduel that is still fun that isnt twd or twl

and when the game was at the peak, 36 hours was a long time but it gave the player something to look forward to, and work for, and to get better within those 36 hours to be a challenge in elim

i remember back in 99 with all the old players still actively playing (and still caring about) elim and trying to do good. it was fun, and you knew it was your best shot to show up some of the old old players when you were new, and it was where people actually noticed you having skill or not

there was no twd at the time, squad duels happened in private frequencies, where both teams would go to safe and spec themselves at 10, obviously this meant that majority of players were elsewhere in places like elim, so it was worthwhile to wait 36 hours to play, now its not because no one is ever there



oh, and to all the people that are complaining about newbies leaving from all the hostility, you have to remember all of us here dealt with it, if these generation y or z (whatever it is now) kids are too emo and cant take being called a newbie, and after that deciding "i want to shoot this person with my ship" and instead they leave the game, well fuck them too, fucking pussies
too many emo kids these days, and no i dont mean kids that like the music or dress that way, thats fine, i mean the personality emo kids, ones that fucking cry themselves to sleep at night for being bitches, grow some balls

[Capital Knockers]

See thats the problem Exalt - Sure pussies suck, but anyone with balls most likely has the balls to go play another game if they don't like the one they're playing. If they come to this one and everyones an asshat, and they don't see themselves going anywhere, why not play WoW or something? So as I said in my original post, it's up to the people ultimately. I'm not saying you have to wipe their tears away everytime you blow them up - just try to give your QS instincts a rest and not say EZ FUCKING NEWBOZGENHNEH every kill. The alternative being, we don't get enough new players and this game continues it's steady decline to death.

While we're being nostalgic, let me go back to the days of 99 where people actually came up with some halfway interesting and imaginative insults? I personally loved the Pallies vs. Diso times though, if you had to pick a favourite.