++++ Small Weasel Petition ++++

[DankNuggets]

or small weasels that are like 1 pixel too big for the holes

[Andy H.K.]

Don't say good old days of small weasel they weren't small in the "good old days" that came about later, yes there are guides for dueling, Basing isn't chess but it is strategy, yes in most cases small weasel sneaking in the flagroom takes no skill (but thank god for all those other ships that have x-radar). Bah well doesn't matter I will give you the small weasel this weekend as a reward for spending soo much time creating those crazy ideas about it.

The oldest weasel was a big cloaker without rocket and repel, back when TW first began. I believe its bullet speed was even slower than the current setting. Weasel users were unheard of back then, no one actually gave it considerations. It also happened to be the last ship I'm in when I "retired" years ago.

No one used the big one not because it is weak, for being invisible is indeed powerful (yet easily defeatable). The big weasel suffer from a lack of purpose. There were hardly any situation where people would find hopping into a weasel helps, especially during basing. I don't know how things went after it got rocket and repel, but seeing what's happening today... Well, it's good for backstabbing people, but that's not good enough to be a defining character when you have basing in mind.

I believe the weasel being small was worth all the sucky setting it received. It was pure. The removal of items make it harder to score kills, but it could sneak through holes. The combination of stealth, cloak and ability to squeeze through holes make it THE ship for covert operations. Its purpose was, for once, clear and pure. That's why people would actually use it and help their teams, because it was actually helpful to be in one.

It seems to me that TW cummunity has a consensus of "there shouldn't be a lot of weasels in a game", and people think they could/should use ship settings itself to control their number. People would argue so far against small weasel to say "being unique doesn't make u useful". Well, it has been shown that it was useful, and so more people would play it. That apparently annoyed some people, or rather, most people. They'd rather have a ship that doesn't have a purity of purpose, so that no one would play it as it doesn't help. However, by leaving out this small part of the game, the whole gaming experience dimished. The game was made "incomplete".

I believe developers should at least give it a try once more, not just for a few days as a present for some "crazy ranting". I also recommend the people who decide the setting to play in it. As I said before, the "sneaking in part" is trivial, it's "what you can do once inside" that counts, and what's hard. Not trying to be boastful, but I believe I weaseled more than anybody else here, at least in the forum. You may found that afterall, developers don't understand the small weasel that much. Really, try it. It will be a worthy experiment.

how about big weasles that can fit through small holes.

We had that. The "big weasel" in St. Patricks day could squeeze through holes.

or small weasels that are like 1 pixel too big for the holes

or small weasels that are like 1 pixel big O_o

now that would be hard to manuver....

[dads revenge]

AHH look they are small

[CaptainPoopface]

Bring back the small x. The settings for the large X make it only suited for ridiculously cheap tactics. On the rare occasions I play weasel, all I do is spawnkill levs and obnoxious wb spawnkillers, as punishment for cheapness on their part. There's essentially nothing they can do to defend themselves other than switch ships, and I'll be the first to say it's lame. The game is now less fun for everyone, including those who play weasel.

I loved the x. It added a lot to the gameplay to have those alternate entrances into the flag room. A single player on the opposing team with X radar can police the holes by alerting teammates, and it takes some time for the x to squeeze in there. After a player tries it once, the opposing team is alert from then on. It's easy to defend against.

The small x was balanced. You could cloak only for a brief time, and everyone hates the weasel, so you had to maneuver like hell when your cloak ran out. But it had the thrust and bullet speed to at least be able to hold its own in the hands of a skilled player. Now it has neither. If your shot misses and the enemy has X radar, you're toast. That means there is no dogfighting with it. You must either hide and assassinate cheaply, or be killed with ease.

That sucks for everyone - the people who like the weasel and the people who hate the weasel.

Switching from the x to the X was a distinct step backward for the game in terms of fun, strategy and balance.

[E sharp]

I didn't read the rest of the thread, but at least to the title I say: fucking signed.

To the specifics, though, I don't think simply making the weasel small again is the answer. If any change is to be made I'd prefer a reversion to the small weasel of a couple years back. That is:

- Slightly higher speed
- Better thrust (for those ridiculous two-screens-away thrustsnipes)
- Infinite cloak/stealth (but no recharge while both are on)
- No rep
- No rocket (but purchasable)
- Can't remember if it had radar, but it's not necessary

I'm sure people will whine and say that it's too overpowered. Which it is—but only in relation to the currently underpowered weasel. As it is the ship is mostly a novelty. In lev pubs it's pretty much limited to cloaking levs and campers and maybe the occasional just-spawned warbird if you're a huge asshole—and in pure pubs it serves even less purpose. So I say, make it a real ship again. Let people play it as the weasel, not as the cloaker.

The only concern would be its potential to unbalance flag time games what with sneaking through the little holes in the roof and whatnot. To set the balance aright on that one I'd recommend giving the lanc x-radar all of the time. You might even make it so that the energy drain is equal to the lanc's recharge rate, like the weasel and its cloakstealth... so that if radar is on, and you take a shot, then your energy is frozen at almost empty and you have to turn it off in order to recharge. Or if you want to be really sadistic you can even let spiders green radar some of the time. And so on.

But if you scrap the cloaker and give us back the weasel, there'll hardly be any need for sneaking around invisible. Cloak will be a tool, not the tool. And that's how it Ought To Be.

[The Rydian]

Been keeping tabs on this for a while, finally decided to join up and post. Been playing on and off for years. Only in pub and maybe once in a while a hosted fun game or two. Love freezetag.

The small weasel was so unique and skillful in the right hands, the fat ship has no chance against a lanc or a terr, at least in the small weasel you could try sometimes with good results.

Tell me about it. Right now if I'm weasel and I see a terr coming for me, I...
1 - Warp.
2 - Uncloak/unstealth and face the other way, waiting for my slow demise at the hands of level one bullets slowly making their way into my ship's anus.

Large weasel is too slow and it's bullets go way too slow to defend itself AT ALL against it's predators. All the other ships have some defense against their predators. Weasels have NONE that I have ever found. If one comes after you, you're dead. Even if they jsut joined yesterday and learned the controls, you're DEAD, period.

Big X is made to be a camper. Who likes campers?

Small weasel could at least 50% of the time manage to work itself through a one-square hole and get behind the wall. Not easy or always an option, but it was at least a form of defense...

[...]The small x was indeed helpful to the team.[...]
[...]I sneaked in and out[...]
[...]interfered enemy actions and consolidated our hold.[...]
[...]With the small x, I was able to go beyone killing, and touch the deeper aspect - psychological warfare.[...]

[...]As I annoyed my opponent more, joy filled my heart - for I know this only help my team more.[...]
[...]they got distracted more from other important objectives,[...]

This I want to point out specifically.
In small weasel, that was great. Fly by a fight uncloaked, watch three enemies break off and chase you out of hate for small weasel. Let them chase you to the edge of the map, die. You're at spawn, they're at the edge of the map.

[...]I found a niche for the weasel, a unique role which no other ships can perform as good.[...]
[...]it was a spy behind enemy lines, wrecking havoc in covert, creating confusion and promoting disorder.[...]

• Fill a unique niche of covert operation, providing variation to personal gameplay options.
• Add extra possibilities (eg. sneaking flag) to the game in general, creating an element of surprise.
• Make the game more engaging by keeping the winning team on its toe, as they would know their opponent may use dire tactic - One shall remain vigilant even when you control majority of indoor area.
• Deepen the mindgame aspect of Trench Wars experience.

The thing is, yes getting into flag room is trivial for small weasel. But, to them, what's important is what they could achieve AFTER getting in.

Remember that the odds is against the small weasel because of its limited attack range, a cloaking time limit and being heavily overnumber in an enemy-controlled flag room. I wish you had at least attempted to play around with the ship back then. It was a challenge and very satisfying when you succeed.

I loved sneaking in a hole, hitting the flag, and seeing if I lived to sneak out. Watching them all freak out suddenly was awesome.

But yes. If small weasel sneaks into base and kills you and gets flag... it's going to die at the hands of your teammates. Very fast. Do people not look at the screen to keep watching after they die?

Bring back the small x. The settings for the large X make it only suited for ridiculously cheap tactics.

To the specifics, though, I don't think simply making the weasel small again is the answer. If any change is to be made I'd prefer a reversion to the small weasel of a couple years back. That is:

- Slightly higher speed
- Better thrust (for those ridiculous two-screens-away thrustsnipes)
- Infinite cloak/stealth (but no recharge while both are on)
- No rep
- No rocket (but purchasable)
- Can't remember if it had radar, but it's not necessary

I don't think that's overpowered. Especially since energy is frozen while cloaked/stealthed, since a single shot from a spider's enough to take it down, and spiders and such can just spray in your general direction.

I saw it a lot during the recent nightwasp weekend. After a small bit people realized the nightwasp was killed by a single spider shot. Spiders spray, 5 nightwasps in that general direction die.

Adaptation..



Since people seem to fear small x, why not give it level 2 bullets like the levi has now?

[The Rydian]

EDIT: Woah, double-post, sorry.

[JD MoFo]

After reading the posts in favour and against the small weasel, I'm yet to see any actions what-so-ever towards a poll or any type of decision.

so WHY isn't anything happening?

[CaptainPoopface]

I'd also like to add that a duel between skilled small weasels had an elegance to it. Now there is no dueling, because you cannot fire a shot that another weasel can't dodge, unless you use your one and only rocket. Just another part of the game that got neutered in the change to big X.

After reading the posts in favour and against the small weasel, I'm yet to see any actions what-so-ever towards a poll or any type of decision.

so WHY isn't anything happening?

Probably because it would take work, and the few people capable of doing it don't want to do extra work, especially when they also personally don't want to attain the goal that the work would accomplish.

I think we are pissing in the wind here.

How much trouble was it to set up an arena for milosh's recent post where people could PM the bot with their vote? That seems much more effective than voting directly on the forums.

[JD MoFo]

Ok, so whats the deal with this?

You expect a shitty weekend setting, which isn't even the actual 'small weasel' setting to actually be some sort of victory for small weasel?

It still has rockets.
It still has repel.
Can still cloak indefinatly.
Still obese (even though we can fit through gaps, but whats the point of that wtf?)

however you nearly did the job right

We can fast shoot.
Have Xradar

seems you are splicing the weasel now with all sorts of random settings.

Why can you seriously not see what the people want, instead of some half baked idea that you think will fit in, in some random weekend setting.

wheres this poll everyones asking for then?

[Andy H.K.]

Why can you seriously not see what the people want, instead of some half baked idea that you think will fit in, in some random weekend setting.

Putting it in this way is better:

"Hear from the end-user"

We believe we had a small weasel setting that was fine and improved TW.

We don't consider our words absolute, but nevertheless accountable opinions.

We are not saints, we are a small group of players who have been experiencing, experimenting and testing the setting of ship 6 for a long while.

We love the game.

We hope the staff would talk to us, telling us what they think of our opinion, their reason of making certain decisions in ship settings.

We have faith in our game developers, who ,like us, want to improve TW.

I don't want to consider this week's weekend setting a mockery to the community. To us, to themselves.

[dads revenge]

Boy am I glad I still have the normal settings saved and yes this is for this weekend only. Case closed!

[JD MoFo]

good job its only for a weekend with this botched set-up GG

[The Rydian]

This weekend event is fun and all (death everywhere like usual!), but I can't help but feel that the weasel being given no charge penalty for it's stealth/cloak/xradar was done... to make it scary. When this weekend event is over people are going to be all "THANK GOD".


Dads, please give me your opinion on this?
Small weasel.
Cloak and Stealth, no drain for both activated (slower charge when both are) like usual.
No X-radar, but stick it on sharks. Or levs? Sharks have three repels and they could really screw up a weasel trying to work it's way into a hole before it dies, or keep it out of the base. A visible repel at a home would be an easy "somebody kill this x" signal to the rest of the team as well.
Level two bullets, slow speed like usual?
No clue on what it's flying speed could be.

This would give them back the covert flaghunt aspect, but make them not landmines (meaning camper) or one hit kill ninjas like they have been. They'd be a non-attack ship for the most part, like sharks?

Still obese (even though we can fit through gaps, but whats the point of that wtf?)

It really is that small. Try picking up greens and seeing the difference. The graphics just didn't change.

[Kontrolz]

This weekend with the small cloakers should be a nice reminder for everyone, they absolutely destroy any form of "basing" that may take place in pure pub.

There was some nice basing going on for about 20 minutes, some good back and forth then, then small weasel douches start up. After you see one five more are sure to follow within a couple of minutes and that's exactly what happened.

Now you've got one freq with a good mix of spids/terrs/sharks/lancs/javs against another freq with over five weasels just slipping in through the cracks. What happens to the well balanced freq? Glad you asked, they all turn javelin to try to kill the cloakers and eventually it turns into a javelin vs. weasel elim/tk fest and any real basers leave.

Pure pub my ass. Thank god this is only for the weekend.